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Tooling? I don't think so. The weight is a bit light but is what one naturally might expect from a coin with this much wear (still almost all silver in the time of Claudius). With this much wear a fourree would be much lighter than 3.64 grams. If I saw this coin at a show and could get it a good price I'd have bought it. Denarii of Claudius are not easy to come by.

The word, " bank" originally meant a bench where money changers set up in the market place or in a forum. They had balance scales to determine weight and touch stones to determine metal and its purity. More like a flea market table than a bank building. Temples often served as a repository for large sums of cash. Loaning money was often done privately at home with contracts and witnesses and sureties for repayment . The Roman courts would enforce such contracts (much of Roma law dealt with loans and debts) and many a young Roman found himself insolvent from contracting bad debts. Julius Caesar played this game as a young man but good fortune (a political office, Pontifex Maximus) saved him. Juno Moneta had her eye set on furthering his career.

Donna, may I suggest that you obtain a sestertius or two of Antoninus Pius. One of the reasons I collect ancients is that I am fascinated at the high quality work that ancient celators could do and those of Antoninus Pius, especially the large sestertii of the Pax Roman are examples of the best work available to collectors at a still reasonable cost. The price of these big sestertii for other emperors of the Pax Romana can be quite expensive and finding them in really nice condition is not so easy as those of Antoninus. Also at the end of his reign the Roman began to reduce the zinc in their coinage and replace it with lead making them very dark in appearance, something I don't like. They also shrank in size. Earlier than Antoninus the brass is large and often light in color but as these were among the most popular emperors (meaning they threw their weight around, killed a lot of people and expanded their conquests) historians (and numismatists) have made their coinage more desirable. I have here four of these Antonine sestertii, three of Antoninus himself and one of his adopted son and heir, and co-Caesar, Marcus Aurelius. As readers can see they are attractive and none of them broke the bank in their acquisition. The reverse of the Aurelius is HILARITAS, of the upper right coin, SALUS, of the coin of the lower right, Mars and of the lower right, INDUVLGENTIA.

I think your example of the siliqua is what is usually described as a "heavy" siliqua. They began to decline in weight pretty quickly to about two grams and under.

What are the weights of those two siliquae?

Probably a long shot but a few years ago I attended a coin show where a dealer had a tray of well over a hundred coins which shared in the shape of your coin. Every blessed one was in this shape (oblong?) and they were being sold as 1/3 stater coins. I bought one which weighed about 2.8 grams. They were said to be coins of Lycian Dynasts. I am sorry I no longer have it or I would have posted its image. Perhaps this will be of some help in your id search.

Nicely done.

Now that is an impressive coin, one of museum quality.

Great thread. I am always glad to see threads like this because I don't know as much about the coins or the history of an empire that tends to get short shrift from both numismatists and historians. As for the question of the OP I think that for much of the history of the Empire, the Byzantines could produce high quality craftmanship in both designing and minting coinage. But for most of their coin producing history it was not essential or even desirable to do so. The emperors were not trying to terrorize their populace into complying with their policies, so no scowling Caracallas or Diocletians were required. Byzantine emperors were, or wished to be seen, as ethereal, above the more mundane matters of day to day administration, more in harmony with the Divinity than a Divinity himself. No, not a divinity but very close to the one God who rules the universe, who ought to be the one most noticed. I have here four coins that illustrate what I am driving at, good fabric, good design, good imagery and a pleasing, respectful appearance, one to inspire confidence but not hubris. From the top, a tremissis of Justinian. Though a small coin, only 1.4. grams, the Celator here has done an excellent job of making the emperor look like he knows what he is doing. It is Sear 149. The second coin is a silver hexagram of Constans II illustrating an irenic and calm confidence in an orderly transition of power (hopefully). It weighs 6.49 grams and on the reverse (still in Latin) is "God, help the Romans" and this solid chunk of silver and fatherly visage makes it seem He will. The third coin is a somewhat unusual semis of Syracuse, still in Byzantibe hands in 835 when this coin was issued showing Theofilus on both sides. It weighs in at 1.7 grams but it is somewhat debased and is probably about 18 k gold, not the 24 K gold Byzantine coins were usually still minted at. The Byzantines were under great pressure in Southern Italy at the time. It is Sear 1672. Last is an electrum nomisma of Michael VII issued just after the heavy loss to the Turks at Manzigert, with Christ, the ruler of all, reminding the faithful that all power is in His hands. Even if the gold content is debased, all's right in this world yet. It is Sear 1868 and weighs 4.4 grams.

Also to be considered, is the large numbers of plated coins, possibly issued by the Athenian government itself during the latter part of the Peloponnesian War. Judging from the huge number of coins with test cuts from this period it would seem to indicate somebody turned out a lot of these debased coins.

The weight is certainly within the denarius range, especially as this specimen shows some wear and probable weight loss. If the RPC is correct, (I have reservations about accurately assessing the fineness of Roman coinage) the fineness is about 10% less than that of a Tiberius denarius so it may or may not have circulated at a discount in the market place but I am certain the money changers would have been careful to have taken into account any differential between the silver of Caesarea and Rome.

Your coin so much resembles the traditional "Tribute Penny" of the New Testament that I wonder if it might have been the other kind of coin "whose image and inscription are upon it" that Jesus of Nazareth used to make his point about taxes to Caesar, especially as it came from an Eastern mint. Do you know if the weight and fineness of fabric was equivalent to the Tiberian denarius out of Rome?

These Cappadocian drachmas were so close in appearance and fabric to the denarius that I have to wonder if they circulated as the equivalent of the denarii, especially among the large illiterate population.

Maybe this is an antiquities Rorschach test but I see a coin of Septimius Severus. Look closely at the eye profile and short forked beard.

I have in my collection a small silver coin of the Lycian League, mid First Century BC weighing 1.93 grams. I am trying to determine what the denomination of this coin is. The same kind of coin is variously listed as a drachma or a hemi drachma depending on the source. Recently I found this coin mentioned in Metcalf's Oxford Handbook as having been issued on the quinarius standard, obviously what we think of as a Roman issue, though we usually think of their silver struck on a denarius standard. The coin is not a scarce one. I have it in my collection because I see it as a very attractive coin. I love the image of Apollo and his kithara on the reverse. It is, I believe, Sear 5295. I would just like to pin down what the denomination of the coin ought to be listed as. Any thoughts or references on its proper denomination greatly appreciated.

Now that is an attractive coin. I bet even Agrippina and Messalina liked it... at one time.

I think this depends on how we are defining "non imperial" officials. The person I think of immediately is Marcus Agrippa, though that depends I guess, on just what a non imperial official is. Agrippa was not related by blood to the emperor (Augustus) but was by marriage. Does this allow us to consider him to have been a "non imperial" ? He was a kind of "fireman for Augustus and held several posts where he did yeoman's work for the emperor running hither and yon dampening any embers of resentment at Roman expansion.. His helping create a settlement with Herod comes to mind. So, he may be entitled to be included here in this posting. Perhaps another would be Sejanus for Tiberius, though I don't think there are any coins with his image on them. Anyway, here are tow coins of Agrippa which most readers will identify at once aa a dupondius of Nimes accompanied by Augustus and on an As issued posthumously by Caligula.

Speaking of the Italian presence in that part of the world circa 1300, take a look at two coins which are remarkably similar, so much so it is obvious that the Byzantines and Italians influenced one another in their coinage. One is a silver Basilikon of the Byzantine emperor Andronicus II of circa 1310 weighing 2.23 grams with Christ enthroned (Sear 2402). The other is a Venetian ducat of Giovanni Dandelo, also with Christ enthroned and weighing 2.2 grams. The ducat appeared first and was duplicated by the Byzantines because of the Italian influence within the Byzantine Empire.

Thanks for this interesting article on a topic and time and place not often written about. I must admit that this is an area and time I don't know that much about. My collecting propensities are in different times and places. However, although not part of my Byzantine collection, but rather from my Medieval collection, I have this one coin which may fit into the times and region you are writing about. The coin is apparently from the Island of Chios during the early 1400's which seems to be about your time period. From what I can gather this island off the coast of Turkey was bouncing around under the control variously of the Turks, Byzantines and Crusader states and at the time of its minting was under control of the Duke of Milan which issued a coin which mirrors the gold ducats or Zecchinos of Venice, which like Milan and Genoa had interests in the region. This coin weighs just a bit under 3.5 grams but its gold may be mixed with silver as it is a light golden tone somewhat similar to electrum. The image is of St. Peter rather than the St. Mark of the Venetian ducat. and the inscription reads similarly but different from the coin of Venice. S PETRVS DUX D ME DIOLAN while on the reverse side it is Christ SIT T XRE DAT TV REGIS ISTE DVC. I think the last time the island was under Byzantine control was under Andronicus II. I hope my coin does fit into the time and place you have written about.

First real one I have seen.

Thanks, Antwerpen. I enjoy the scholarship behind the coins as much as the coins themselves.

Steve: Since you have a Tarentine drachma similar to mine, especially the reverse with a very Attic looking owl, I wonder if you could comment on something. In most references, with the notable exception of Arnold Toynbee, Tarentum or Taras is said to have been a Doric, Spartan colony. The owls on these coins look very much like the Attic "owls" of Fifth to Third century BC Athens. Why would a Doric speaking colony put an Athenian looking owl of their coinage ca. 300 BC? Anyone, any thoughts on this?

I think the coinage of Greek Italy, Magna Graecia, to be the most beautiful of ancient coins. Whether they had their own skilled celators or brought them in from from mainland Greece, I find their coins simply lovely. Below are five examples of such beauty. From upper left a tetradrachma of Leontini with lion and ears of grain (Sear 825) 17.1 grams, ca. 450 BC. Next a didrachma of Neapolis (Sear 299) at 7.2 grams., ca. 300 BC. The one on the far right is a stater of Metapontum with Demeter on obverse a grain ear on the reverse. (Sear 416) at 7.8 grams. ca. 320 BC. On the bottom left a gorgeous Athena on a didrachma of Velia with a crouching lion on the reverse. (Sear 269) at 7.4 grams, ca. 300 BC. And last a little drachma of Tarentum, Calabria with another Athena on the reverse and a familiar looking Attic owl n the reverse. (Sear 367) at 3.2 grams, ca. 290 BC.

Yes, I can clearly see the earlier design. Since Venice had at one time been a Byzantine outpost. perhaps there still was a numismatic influence in effect.