Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 24, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) For many years, I have wanted an example of the profile coinage of Henry VII, first introduced during his reign in place of the facing images of monarchs that typified English medieval coinage -- and that I admit have never appealed to me! I finally found one I wanted to buy at the most recent Noonans auction, and now that it has arrived, I can post the photo and a write-up. Henry VII, AR Groat, profile issue, regular issue, 1504-1509, London Mint. Obv. Crowned and draped bust right, wearing arched imperial crown with triple band, HENRIC' · VII' · DI' · GRA' · REX · AGL' · Z · F' [Henry the Seventh by the Grace of God King of England and France] / Rev. Royal shield of arms over long cross fourchée, POSVI DEV . · A DIVTOR E' : MEV' [abbreviation of POSUI DEUM ADJUTOREM MEUM; I have made God my helper]. Mintmark pheon [barbed arrowhead pointing downward] on both obv. and rev., saltire stops (mixed on rev.). S. 2258. 26 mm., 2.98 g., 9 h. Purchased from Noonans (Noonans Mayfair Ltd., London, UK), Auction 270, 9 Mar 2023, Lot 2097; ex Clive Dennett Coins, Norwich, UK (retail purchase 1991).* *See Peter Seaby, The Story of British Coinage (1985) at pp. 83-84 (ill. 106 at p. 83 shows a specimen of S. 2258 with mintmark pheon), describing the introduction under Henry VII of an individualized profile portrait of the king, instead of the facing image of a generalized monarch that had previously been featured on the obverses of English coinage, representing “a step moving from medieval to Renaissance style, . . . perhaps coinciding with the appointment of Alexander de Brugsal, a German goldsmith, as engraver to the mint.” Thus, “in 1504, there were produced at the London mint coins with a profile portrait which compete for excellence with the finest portrait pieces issued by the Italians. This new coinage consisted of testoons of twelve pence (the first of this denomination to be issued), groats and half-groats, though only the last two coins appear to have been minted in any quantity. These portrait pieces have been attributed to Alexander de Brugsal, though as he moved to Antwerp in 1504 it is possible that they were the work of some other engraver.” The author notes that Henry VIII retained his father’s portrait on his own coins for the first fifteen years of his reign. I invite you to post any and all coins you may have of any monarch named Henry -- or Heinrich or Henrik or Henri or Enrique or any other variation, including Henrietta or Harriet -- from any country. The only one I have is this one: Henry VIII, Second coinage, 1526-1532, AR Halfgroat, Canterbury, Archbishop Warham, mm. cross patonce, WA by shield, 20 mm., 1.29 g., 10h. S. 2343. Purchased from Dix Noonan Webb [now Noonans Mayfair Ltd.], Auction 251, 8 March 2022, Lot 190. Oddly, there's never been a U.S. President named Henry. And only one Vice-President I can think of. Have there been any British Prime Ministers with that name? Edited March 24, 2023 by DonnaML 23 1 1 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eidolon Posted March 24, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 Looks like I have only one photographed? I have no idea if something from my German States minors collection was issued under a Heinrich/Henrik. Henry VIII 2nd Groat 1526-44 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted March 24, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2023 Wow! That’s an incredibly nice portrait on that Henry VII. Nice coins. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth77 Posted March 24, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 5 hours ago, DonnaML said: Oddly, there's never been a U.S. President named Henry. And only one Vice-President I can think of. Have there been any British Prime Ministers with that name? Harry S. Truman seems close enough 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted March 24, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) That’s a beautiful coin. They’re not easy to find in such condition. Not only have several Prime Ministers been called Henry, but the very first was - Henry Campbell-Bannerman. Before him (and still) they were called First Lord of the Treasury. Prime Minister was a bit of an insult. Edited March 24, 2023 by John Conduitt 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kali Posted March 24, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 Very nice example. I have a half grout, but it's pretty much a budget example. I am still happy with it though. Henry VII (1485- 1509 A.D.) AR Half Groat O: ҺЄnRIC’ × VII’ × DI’ × GRΛ × RЄX × ΛGL’, crowned bust right. R: POSVI × DЄV’ × Λ DIVTO Є’ × mЄV’ ×, coat-of-arms over long cross fourchée; two keys below. York Mint; under Archbishop Christopher Bainbridge Struck 1504-1509. IM: Rose 19mm 1.46g SCBI 23 (Ashmolean), 964; North 1751/1; SCBC 2262 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 24, 2023 · Patron Share Posted March 24, 2023 I don't have anything to share buy that is a very nice coin Donna. 😲 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 24, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 24, 2023 10 hours ago, seth77 said: Harry S. Truman seems close enough Of course, the "Harry" was famously his actual name, not a nickname. And Harry can = Harold as well as Henry. But you're right; it's close enough! The Vice President I was thinking of was Henry Wallace. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted March 24, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2023 That's a beauty, Donna! I've bid on quite a few of these but in my relentless pursuit of bargains have never come out on top. (I saw your coin in the auction but given its quality and the venue I didn't even bother!) At some point I'll have to pony up. I have both Henry VI and Henry VIII. First, a Henry VI penny from Calais: And this is my Henry VIII groat. I wanted one of the late reign (but still lifetime) debased coins and was quite pleased with this one for only 50 quid! Southwark mint, includes the Arabic numeral "8" at 3:30 on the obverse. Henry opened this mint in conjunction with The Great Debasement and it was closed and demolished under Mary. Southwark coins are almost impossible to find in high grades, i'm happy this has a decent portrait. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 24, 2023 · Patron Share Posted March 24, 2023 I forgot I had these. 2022 issues in various sizes. The silver were minted in 1-10 oz. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 24, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 24, 2023 I just noticed that inside the old coin envelope that came with the Henry VII groat (presumably from Clive Dennett Coins), there's an old coin tag that says "See Spink Sept. 86." Which makes me wonder if perhaps the coin was originally purchased from the listings in that month's Spink Numismatic Circular, or if the meaning is simply that that issue had a reference to the type. Unfortunately, the only 1986 issue of the publication that appears to be online -- whether at the Internet Archive, the Newman Numismatic Portal, or even in snippet view at Google Books -- is the February 1986 issue. (Frustratingly, there seem to be a lot of issues available online up through 1985 in the various sources.) I remember that at Coin Talk a few years ago, @Kiaora said that they had a pretty much complete run of issues from that period. So if @Kiaora is still around here, and has a copy of the September 1986 issue, and is willing to take a look to see if this groat might have been listed in it, I would be extremely grateful! The same, of course, would be the case if anyone else happens to have it. Thanks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broucheion Posted March 24, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 19 hours ago, DonnaML said: Oddly, there's never been a U.S. President named Henry. What about William Henry Harrison? - Brpucheion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 24, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 24, 2023 Just now, Broucheion said: What about William Henry Harrison? - Brpucheion How could I forget one of our greatest Presidents?! And I even have a couple of his old campaign tokens: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted March 24, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 24, 2023 I can just about do all the English Henrys. The only fairly expensive ones are Henry I and Henry IV, which is why my coins for those are terrible. Henry VII and VIII are only expensive if you want the realistic portrait. But at least none of them are Edward V or Richard III expensive.Henry I Cut Halfpenny (from a ‘Quadrilateral on Cross Fleury’ Penny), 1125-1135London. Silver, 19.5mm, 0.65g. Henry I left; (+hENRI)CVS:. Quadrilateral on cross fleury; (+P)VLFPINE:ON(:LV) (Moneyer Wulfwine) (S 1276). Henry II Class 1b1 Penny, 1180-1182Winchester. Silver, 1.41g. Facing bust with sceptre; 2 hair curls left and 6 right instead of 5; hENRICVS · REX. Short voided cross with four pellets in each quarter; ADAM · ON · WINC (S 1344; SCBI Mass 490, same dies; Winchester Mint 2434ff). Ex Lord Stewartby (the Academic Collection of Lord Stewartby). From the Croft Bank, Wainfleet (Lincolnshire) Hoard 1990 of 383 pennies and halfpennies found in a jug, deposited by 1205. Henry III Class 3d1 Long Cross Penny, 1250London. Silver, 18-19mm, 1.50g. Crowned head facing, annulet eyes with pellet, pellet between hair curls, pointed beard, neck lines, no sceptre, wedge-shaped R; hENRICVS REX: III'. Voided long cross, three pellets in each angle; NIC OLE ONL VND (moneyer Nicholas of London) (S 1364). Ex Michael Trenerry. From the Brussels (Belgium) Hoard 1908.Henry IV Light Coinage Halfpenny, 1412-1413Tower. Silver, 0.56g. Crowned bust facing, annulet either side in upper field; HENRIC REX ANGL. Long cross pattée with three pellets in each angle; CIVITAS LONDON (S 1737).Henry V Class C Halfpenny, 1413-1422Tower. Silver, 13mm, 0.40g. Crowned facing ordinary bust within inner circle, broken annulets by crown; + ҺЄnRIC x RЄX x ΛnGL. Long cross pattée with trefoil of pellets in angles, legend around; CIVI TΛS LOn DOn (S 1794; Withers Type 5a). Henry VI Second Reign (Restored) Groat, 1470-1471Tower. Silver, 26mm, 2.72g. Crowned facing bust in tressure of arches, trefoils on cusps above crown, saltire stops; hЄnRICV DI GRΛ RЄX ΛnGL Z FRAnC (Henry by the Grace of God King of England and France). Long cross pattee, trefoils in quarters, saltire stops; + POSVI DЄVm ΛDIVTORЄ mЄV (I have made God my helper); CIVI TAS LOn Don (City of London); mintmark pierced restoration cross both sides (S 2082, this coin). Ex Ivan Buck.Henry VII Sovereign Issue Penny (under Archbishop Thomas Rotherham), 1485-1500York. Silver, 15mm, 0.73g. Henry enthroned facing, holding scepter and globus cruciger; throne of one single pillar; hEnRICx DIx GRAx REXx ANG'. Coat-of-arms over long cross fourchée; CIVI TAS EBO RACI; keys below shield (S 2236). The keys are from the Arms of the Diocese of York.Henry VIII Second Coinage Groat, 1526-1544Tower. Silver, 2.77g. Bust D; HENRIC VIII D G R AGLIE Z FRANC, mintmark arrow. Quartered shield of arms over long cross fourchée, saltire in each fork; POSVI DEU ADIVTORE MEU (S 2337E). 8 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 24, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: I can just about do all the English Henrys. The only fairly expensive ones are Henry I and Henry IV, which is why my coins for those are terrible. Henry VII and VIII are only expensive if you want the realistic portrait. But at least none of them are Edward V or Richard III expensive.Henry I Cut Halfpenny (from a ‘Quadrilateral on Cross Fleury’ Penny), 1125-1135London. Silver, 19.5mm, 0.65g. Henry I left; (+hENRI)CVS:. Quadrilateral on cross fleury; (+P)VLFPINE:ON(:LV) (Moneyer Wulfwine) (S 1276). Henry II Class 1b1 Penny, 1180-1182Winchester. Silver, 1.41g. Facing bust with sceptre; 2 hair curls left and 6 right instead of 5; hENRICVS · REX. Short voided cross with four pellets in each quarter; ADAM · ON · WINC (S 1344; SCBI Mass 490, same dies; Winchester Mint 2434ff). Ex Lord Stewartby (the Academic Collection of Lord Stewartby). From the Croft Bank, Wainfleet (Lincolnshire) Hoard 1990 of 383 pennies and halfpennies found in a jug, deposited by 1205. Henry III Class 3d1 Long Cross Penny, 1250London. Silver, 18-19mm, 1.50g. Crowned head facing, annulet eyes with pellet, pellet between hair curls, pointed beard, neck lines, no sceptre, wedge-shaped R; hENRICVS REX: III'. Voided long cross, three pellets in each angle; NIC OLE ONL VND (moneyer Nicholas of London) (S 1364). Ex Michael Trenerry. From the Brussels (Belgium) Hoard 1908.Henry IV Light Coinage Halfpenny, 1412-1413Tower. Silver, 0.56g. Crowned bust facing, annulet either side in upper field; HENRIC REX ANGL. Long cross pattée with three pellets in each angle; CIVITAS LONDON (S 1737).Henry V Class C Halfpenny, 1413-1422Tower. Silver, 13mm, 0.40g. Crowned facing ordinary bust within inner circle, broken annulets by crown; + ҺЄnRIC x RЄX x ΛnGL. Long cross pattée with trefoil of pellets in angles, legend around; CIVI TΛS LOn DOn (S 1794; Withers Type 5a). Henry VI Second Reign (Restored) Groat, 1470-1471Tower. Silver, 26mm, 2.72g. Crowned facing bust in tressure of arches, trefoils on cusps above crown, saltire stops; hЄnRICV DI GRΛ RЄX ΛnGL Z FRAnC (Henry by the Grace of God King of England and France). Long cross pattee, trefoils in quarters, saltire stops; + POSVI DЄVm ΛDIVTORЄ mЄV (I have made God my helper); CIVI TAS LOn Don (City of London); mintmark pierced restoration cross both sides (S 2082, this coin). Ex Ivan Buck.Henry VII Sovereign Issue Penny (under Archbishop Thomas Rotherham), 1485-1500York. Silver, 15mm, 0.73g. Henry enthroned facing, holding scepter and globus cruciger; throne of one single pillar; hEnRICx DIx GRAx REXx ANG'. Coat-of-arms over long cross fourchée; CIVI TAS EBO RACI; keys below shield (S 2236). The keys are from the Arms of the Diocese of York.Henry VIII Second Coinage Groat, 1526-1544Tower. Silver, 2.77g. Bust D; HENRIC VIII D G R AGLIE Z FRANC, mintmark arrow. Quartered shield of arms over long cross fourchée, saltire in each fork; POSVI DEU ADIVTORE MEU (S 2337E). Wow, I was hoping you'd post something like this. Fantastic! All the Henries together, in one big happy family. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edessa Posted March 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2023 Germany. Henry IV (AD 1056-1106). AR Denar. Duisburg mint, struck circa AD 1056-1084, Royal Period. Obv: + HENRICHVS IMP; Crowned bust of Henry right, scepter to right. Rev: Within four circles, DI-VS-BV-RG; at center. Ref: Dannenberg 1515; Kluge 169. Very Fine, complete with loop, ready to wear. 5 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiaora Posted March 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 25, 2023 5 hours ago, DonnaML said: I just noticed that inside the old coin envelope that came with the Henry VII groat (presumably from Clive Dennett Coins), there's an old coin tag that says "See Spink Sept. 86." Which makes me wonder if perhaps the coin was originally purchased from the listings in that month's Spink Numismatic Circular, or if the meaning is simply that that issue had a reference to the type. Unfortunately, the only 1986 issue of the publication that appears to be online -- whether at the Internet Archive, the Newman Numismatic Portal, or even in snippet view at Google Books -- is the February 1986 issue. (Frustratingly, there seem to be a lot of issues available online up through 1985 in the various sources.) I remember that at Coin Talk a few years ago, @Kiaora said that they had a pretty much complete run of issues from that period. So if @Kiaora is still around here, and has a copy of the September 1986 issue, and is willing to take a look to see if this groat might have been listed in it, I would be extremely grateful! The same, of course, would be the case if anyone else happens to have it. Thanks! Reference to type, not the actual coin I think despite the low resolution image 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Atherton Posted March 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 25, 2023 Donna, you must be superstitious like me and don't post anything online until it's in hand! Fantastic coin ... and I don't often say that about early modern coinage! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 25, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kiaora said: Reference to type, not the actual coin I think despite the low resolution image Thanks so much! It's really difficult to tell, but from simply trying to compare them around the rims as well as comparing the lettering, especially on the obverse, I'm pretty sure you're right that the "see" reference was to the coins being the same type, not the same specimen. The two don't seem to match, in a number of places (see, for example, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 on the obverse). Edited March 25, 2023 by DonnaML 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 25, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, David Atherton said: Donna, you must be superstitious like me and don't post anything online until it's in hand! Fantastic coin ... and I don't often say that about early modern coinage! Thank you. Regarding being superstitious, the last time I broke that self-imposed rule was at the very beginning of February, and the coin still hasn't arrived -- it's been stuck in U.S. Customs since Feb. 6, despite being a perfectly standard Lucilla denarius. So I'm trying to be very careful these days! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted March 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2023 After seeing @John Conduitt's lovely series and @Edessa's extension to the Holy Roman Empire (great coin!) I felt compelled to put together a little display of all my Henries: I've got some filling-in to do, especially for France! 4 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted March 26, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted March 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Severus Alexander said: After seeing @John Conduitt's lovely series and @Edessa's extension to the Holy Roman Empire (great coin!) I felt compelled to put together a little display of all my Henries: I've got some filling-in to do, especially for France! This is great -- exactly the kind of post I was hoping to see! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted March 26, 2023 · Member Share Posted March 26, 2023 (edited) Really magnificent halfgroat, @DonnaML. For condition, this is up to your standards for Roman Republican. And a resonantly brilliant thread, as has been extensively demonstrated. And, Yowie, with the English and German Henrys so well covered, here's one collective instance that still needs to happen. Duchy of Brabant. Henri /Hendrik I, Duke 1190-1225. Obv. Henri in armor, on horseback, brandishing shield and sword. (From 6 o'clock, letters facing outward, a la Flavian coins --and mostly off the flan:) DV...X. Rev. Cross of Brabant; annulets /pellets, quatrefoils in each angle. Haeck, Brabanse pp. 60-3, No. 10-17. Henri II-III, 1235-1248-1261. Continued by Adelaide as regent, 1261-1268, and Jean /Jan I, 1268-1294. Double-headed eagle (evoking the Hohenstaufen arms). /Cross of Brabant; QOLI in angles (the moneyer's name?). Haeck pp. 98-9, no. 124. Edited March 26, 2023 by JeandAcre Did I (....) Finally lose that big repeat of the 2nd reverse at the end? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edessa Posted March 26, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted March 26, 2023 Ireland. Henry III, AD 1216-1272. AR Penny (17.5mm, 1.46g, 7h). Dublin Mint. Class IIa. Struck AD 1216-1272. Obv: heNRI CVSR eX III; Crowned facing bust, holding cruciform scepter; cinquefoil to right; all within triangle. Rev: DAV ION DEV ELP; Voided long cross, with pellet at center; triple pellets in quarters. Ref: SCBC 6248. Good Very Fine, toned. Ex Patrick Finn, with ticket. Ex DNW Auction (11 Mar 2020), Lot 188. Ex Del Parker, Feb 2022. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted March 26, 2023 · Patron Share Posted March 26, 2023 GERMANY, Regensburg (royal mint city). Heinrich I. As Duke of Bayern, 995-1004. AR Pfennig Diameter: 20mm Weight: 1.30 g Encio, moneyer. Struck 995-1002. Obverse: Short cross pattée; pellets in first and fourth quarters, annulet in second, chevron in third Reverse: Temple façade; ENC retrograde at center. Hahn 25c.6; Dannenberg 1071. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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