Benefactor Simon Posted June 2 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 2 (edited) I am reading “The first fossil Hunters.” By Adrienne Mayor. In it She makes an interesting argument that the Griffin was not just a mythical creature, a combination of a Lion and a Eagle. It was based on fossils, fossils of creatures long gone. In it he believes the legend of the Griffin were started by Scythian gold miners going through the Gobi dessert. The Gobi Desert has plenty of fossils The most common is the Protoceratops, his bones were birdlike, beak included, with a little imagination you get a Griffin. BTW, a similar theory exists for the Unicorn, in actuality it is a rhino, the description of the unicorn in all three of the Abrahamic faiths could be interpreted as such. The fossils in the Gobi Desert are boney white but the land has a red color to it, that would have made the fossils easy to see and spectacular to boot. Velociraptor and Protoceratops I have one coin, I bought it to go with the book. Kainon Sicily 367B.C to 340 B.C 9.3gm 21.2mm From the Eret Bishop Collection. Feel free to post your Griffin. Roman or Greek. Edited June 2 by Simon corrected authors gender. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted June 2 · Member Share Posted June 2 I have a small herd. 7 mm, 0,18 g. Ionia, Phokaia. AR Tetartemorion. Circa 521-478 BC. Head of griffin left / Incuse punch. Cf. SNG Kayhan 514–6 (hemidrachms) and 1428 (diobol). It is possible that this issue may belong to Abdera or Teos, both of which also issued early silver coins with griffins on the obverse. 19 mm, 2,79 g. Gallienus 260-268. Æ antoninianus. Rome. IMP GALLIENVS AVG, head of Gallienus, radiate, right / APOLLINI CONS AVG, griffin, walking left. RIC V Gallienus 165; RSC 77. An interesting type with a reverse iconography that because a trademark in Tarsos coinage, even when it became a Roman province 18 mm, 3,7 g. Seleukid Kingdom. Antiochus VII Euergetes 138-129 BC. AR drachm. Tarsos, “civic” workshop. Diademed head of Antiochus VII right / BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ ANTIOXOY EYEPΓETOY, Sandan standing right, wearing a polos and with bow and quiver over shoulder, holding labrys and flower, on the back of horned lion-griffin right; to outer left, [ΛY above monogram]. Cf. SC 2058.1; HGC 9, 1081. And perhaps the most popular griffin type 21 mm, 7,17 g. Cimmerian Bosporos, Pantikapaion. Ӕ tetrachalkon. Circa 325-310 BC. Head of Pan right (or head of Silenos right with ass's ear) / Π-A-N, forepart of griffin crouching left, right front paw raised, sturgeon swimming left below. Anokhin 111; SNG BM Black Sea 869-871; SNG Munich 19; MacDonald 69; SNG Cop 30. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted June 2 · Patron Share Posted June 2 I too enjoyed that book. Here's my favorite griffin. Hadrian 117-138 CE. Roman orichalcum as, 8.88 g, 22.1 mm, 5 h. Rome mint for use in Syria, 124-125 CE. Obv: HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust, right, seen from rear. Rev: COS III S C, Griffin leaping right. Refs: RIC II.3, 754; RPC III, 3759; BMCRE --; Strack 624; McAlee 549; Sear --. Notes: Some numismatists attribute this to a mint in Antioch. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted June 2 · Member Share Posted June 2 (edited) “Beware of the sharp-beaked hounds of Zeus that do not bark, the Grypes (Griffins) who dwell about the flood of Plouton's stream that flows with gold. Do not approach them.” ~ Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound) Abdera, Thrace Teos, Ionia Alaisa, Sicily Velia, Lucania Edited June 2 by Phil Anthos 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted June 2 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 2 (edited) Thrace, Abdera AR Tetrobol 311-280 BCE Obv: Griffin crouching left on club. Rev: ΑΒΔΗΡΙΤΕΩΝ. Laureate head of Apollo right within linear square. SNG Copenhagen 366. Ex Frank Robinson Ex Rauch Thrace, Abdera ΣΙΜΑΛΟΥ (Simalos) magistrate circa 311-250 BCE Æ 17 mm, 3,89g Griffin lying left / Laureate head of Apollo right in linear square; EΠI ΣI-MA-ΛOY around C-N Period XI, 562–626; HGC 3.2, 1234 Ionia, Teos circa 370-340 BCE Æ 12mm, 1,64g Obv: Griffin seated right, raising forepaw Rev: Kantharos Kimmerian Bosporos, Pantikapaion Æ 7.23g, 20mm, 11h. Circa 325-310 BCE Head of bearded Satyr to right / Π-Α-Ν around forepart of griffin to left; sturgeon to left below MacDonald 69; SNG BM Black Sea 869-71; SNG Stancomb 542; HGC 7, 113 A unicorn I photographed in the Sabi Sands, South Africa. Edited June 2 by kirispupis 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Snible Posted June 2 · Member Share Posted June 2 Adrienne Mayor is a lady. https://classics.stanford.edu/people/adrienne-mayor This coin depicts a "ketos" (sea monster), not a griffin: CARIA, Halikarnassos (or Kindya?), 499-497 BC, hekte (or tetrobol?), 2.29g ref: Kagan and Kritt, Numismatic Chronicle 1995; Asyut 688; Richard Ashton and Koray Konuk, THE KETOS COINS OF KARIA #6 (same obv die A6) Purchased from Brian Kritt, January 2003 The depiction of the sea monster on this die of this coin type seems to show bones. Could it have been inspired by a fossil? In ancient times, some ancient authors believed the myth of Perseus and Andromeda's rescue from the ketos took place at Joppa (modern Jaffa in Israel). The skeleton of a sea monster was moved from Joppa to Rome in 58 BC by Marcus Aemilius Scaurus. Pliny claimed the monster’s backbone was 40 feet long and 1.5 feet thick with ribs taller than an Indian elephant. It's not clear if the monster that was moved by Scaurus was a fossil or a whale skeleton. Adrienne Mayor argues Scaurus’ skeleton was the fossil of a giant elephant, the prehistoric mastodon. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Simon Posted June 2 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Ed Snible said: Adrienne Mayor is a lady Thank You, I have corrected the gender in my post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted June 2 · Member Share Posted June 2 (edited) It seems I've seen a lot of these Keto coins on the market recently, by far more than I've ever noticed before. ~ Peter Edited June 3 by Phil Anthos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted June 3 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 3 I have read parts of that book as well, and the theory makes a lot of sense. It has also been applied to other legendary creatures; see for example the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon , which quotes from the book. Here are my griffins on ancient coins. (When I feel like being pretentious, I spell the word "gryphons"!): Cimmerian Bosporos, Pantikapaion, AE 19 mm., ca. 320-310 BCE, minted under Perisad I, 345-310 BC. Obv. Bearded head of satyr (Pan), right / Rev. Forepart of griffin left; below, sturgeon left; Π-A-N [PAN] around. Anokhin (2011) 1023 [Anokhin, V.A., Античные Монеты Северного Причерноморья (Ancient Coins of the Northern Black Sea Coast) (Kiev. 2011) (see https://bosporan-kingdom.com/111-3141/)]; Seaby 1700 [Sear, David, Greek Coins and their Values, Vol. 1: Europe (Seaby 1979) at p. 169]; BMC 3 Thrace 20 [R.S. Poole, ed. A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 3, The Tauric Chersonese, Sarmatia, Dacia, Moesia, Thrace, etc. (London, 1877) at p. 7]; HGC 7, 113 [Hoover, Oliver D., Handbook of Coins of Northern and Central Anatolia, Pontos, Paphlagonia, Bithynia, Phrygia, Galatia, Lykaonia, and Kappadokia (with Kolchis and the Kimmerian Bosporos), 5th to 1st Centuries BC, The Handbook of Greek Coinage Series, Volume 7 (Lancaster, PA, 2012); MacDonald 69 [MacDonald, David, An Introduction to the History and Coinage of the Kingdom of the Bosporus. Classical Numismatic Studies 5 (Lancaster, 2005)]; SNG BM Black Sea 869-870 [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Great Britain, Volume IX, British Museum, Part 1: The Black Sea (London, 1993); available online at http://www.sylloge-nummorum-graecorum.org; see SNGuk_0901_0869 and SNGuk_0901_0870]; Anokhin (1986) 111 [Anokhin, V.A., Monetnoye delo Bospora (The Coinage of the Bosporus (Kiev, 1986)]. 20 mm., 7.87 g., 12 h. Purchased from Sphinx Numismatics, Markham ON Canada, Dec. 2020. Roman Republic, L. Papius, AR Serrate Denarius, 79 BCE. Obv. Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin; control-symbol of lyre behind/ Rev. Gryphon prancing right, control-symbol of lyre-key below, L. PAPI in exergue. Crawford 384/1 (see also Crawford Vol. II Plate LXVII, control-symbol pair 127 & p. 788), RSC I Papia 1, Sear RCV I 311 (ill.), Harlan, RRM I Ch. 7 at pp. 32-35, BMCRR Rome 2977-3095 [control-symbol pair of lyre and lyre-key is not listed in BMCRR]. 19 mm., 3.79 g., 9 h. [Double die match to two examples depicted at https://www.bonannocoins.com/l_papius/l_papi_coins.php?type_id=127.00 .] Philip II, AE Tetrassarion, 247-249 AD, Moesia Inferior, Tomis [now Constanţa, Romania]. Obv. Bareheaded, draped, and cuirassed bust right, seen from rear, Μ ΙΟΥΛ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟC ΚΑΙCΑΡ / Rev. Griffin seated left with right paw on top of wheel [representing Nemesis*], ΜΗ-ΤΡΟ-Π-ΠΟ, continued in exergue in two lines: NTOΥ ΤΟΜΕ/ΩϹ (ME ligate), Δ in right field [signifying the denomination, 4 assaria]. 27 mm., 12.22 g. RPC [Roman Provincial Coinage] VIII Online 28171 [temporary ID number] (see https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/type/28171) [this coin is Specimen 7, used as primary illustration for type, see https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coin/156187 ]; Varbanov 5781 [Varbanov, Ivan, Greek Imperial Coins And Their Values, Volume I: Dacia, Moesia Superior & Moesia Inferior (English Edition) (Bourgas, Bulgaria, 2005)]. Purchased from Herakles Numismatics, Jan. 2021; ex. I-Nummis, Paris, Mail Bid Sale 6, Nov. 7, 2008, Lot 399 (see https://www.coinarchives.com/a/openlink.php?l=239902|348|399|a3b582d0b87f863b39d084dd851a7a89). [“Scarce”: 11 specimens in RPC (including this coin), 6 examples in ACSearch (including this coin).] *See https://www.getty.edu/publications/romanmosaics/catalogue/8/ : “The image of a griffin supporting one of its forepaws on a wheel appears in Roman art by the first century AD. The wheel, a symbol of the cyclical movement of human fortune, and the winged griffin are both distinctive attributes of Nemesis, the goddess of vengeance, who is also often represented with wings. In a first-century AD wall painting from the House of the Fabii at Pompeii, Apollo and two female figures are accompanied by a winged griffin with a wheel. This motif also occurs on coins of Alexandria dating to the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81–96). Scenes depicting Nemesis with a griffin are especially common during the second and third centuries AD and occur in many different media, including coins, gems, statues, and funerary and votive reliefs. The particular image of a griffin resting its paw on a wheel, typically seated at the foot of Nemesis, is so pervasive that it eventually became a symbol for the goddess herself. For example, a limestone mold of the second to third centuries AD from Egypt, possibly from Alexandria, shows a griffin and a wheel with the Greek inscription Nemesis. Representations of the griffin with a wheel unaccompanied by Nemesis, as in the Getty mosaic, are particularly common in North Africa and the eastern periphery of the Roman Empire. The motif appears in the second and third centuries AD in Egyptian statuettes in faience [see image at https://www.getty.edu/publications/romanmosaics/assets/images/pics/pic_30_faience-egyptian-statuette.jpg], relief stelai from the amphitheater at Leptis Magna in present-day Libya; tomb paintings in Jordan; a votive marble statue from Erez, Israel, bearing a dedicatory inscription in Greek (dated AD 210–211); gems from Caesarea Maritima in Israel and Gadara in Jordan; and terracotta tesserae from Palmyra. While the worship of Nemesis was widespread across the Roman Empire, it was particularly prevalent in Egypt, where she had a pre-Roman cult, and in Syria and the surrounding regions, where she was associated with several important local deities, including the classical goddesses Tyche (personification of fortune) and Nike (personification of victory) and the Arabic deities Allath (goddess of war) and Manawat (goddess of fate).” [Footnotes omitted.] Gallienus, Billon Antoninianus, 267-268 AD, Rome Mint, 4th Officina, 10th emission (Göbl and Reinhardt). Obv. Radiate head right, GALLIENVS AVG / Rev. Gryphon walking left, APOLLINI CONS AVG; Δ [Delta = 4th Officina] in exergue. RIC V-1 166, RSC IV 76, Sear RCV III 10180, Wolkow 4a4, Göbl MIR Band 36, No. 718b [ill. at http://www258.pair.com/denarius/coinage.htm (Ed Flinn's site); not ill. in Reinhardt w/radiate head right & this obv. legend]. 20.5 mm., 3.29 g., 6 h. 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted June 3 · Supporter Share Posted June 3 15 hours ago, DonnaML said: It has also been applied to other legendary creatures; Dwarf elephant skulls = Cyclops was a common one. There's an example of the skull in the Agrigento (if memory serves) museum, and I recently read a book where the author highlighted it as a strange phenomenon, not because it was dwarf (island syndrome) but because the author seriously thought it was a one-eyed dwarf species. She was a top-level-educated UK historian by background which made me despair. If the trunk/nasal socket fools people now, it's not surprising it perplexed the ancients. Not my photo. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkeySwag96 Posted June 5 · Member Share Posted June 5 AR Serrate Denarius 18mm. 3.80g. Rome Mint Head of Juno Sospita r., wearing goat's skin; helmet and sword behind. Gryphon springing r., ladle(?) below; In ex.: L.PAPI RSC I Papia 1; Craw 384/1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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