rasiel Posted June 8 · Member Share Posted June 8 I'm aware that Lanz went on the slippery slope going from listing toolies to eventually outright fakes. My question is when did it (apparently) entirely go out of business? I see their website is redirecting to a cosmetics company so, yeah, what a fall from grace! To think they went from a peak in 2000 when they had the absolutely stunning Leo Benz sale to slinging ten buck coins on ebay a decade later has to be the greatest coin business implosion since the days of NFA. So what happened? Is it really as simple as greed and incompetence of a single individual? Isn't the brand name, with roots dating back over a century across some of the biggest names in European auction house, not worth the literal cost of $20 a year to keep the lanz.com domain registered? Would love to know the inside story! Rasiel 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kali Posted June 8 · Member Share Posted June 8 To tell you the truth, I forgot they existed until you made this thread. It's been years since I bought from them. I stopped when they started selling fakes. Good Riddance! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliodromus Posted June 8 · Member Share Posted June 8 I seem to recall someone saying they went bad when Hubert took over from his father (and founder) Hermann Lanz. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted June 8 · Member Share Posted June 8 No one knows for sure, but it is told that Hubert Lanz is living in a nursing home in his hometown Graz, not doing well. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postvmvs Posted June 9 · Member Share Posted June 9 (edited) The last post with similar questions about what happened to Lanz on the German forum: https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67924 As @Dwarf mentioned, there are only rumors and not direct sources. If the information in the thread is correct, he would be 80 or 81 years old now, so being in a nursing home is plausible. The downfall of the company is variously attributed to either "students" or his son taking over, or confusingly, his son having no interest in taking over. Edited June 9 by Postvmvs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted June 9 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 9 (edited) Within the last year, Lanz still had an ebay store, selling off old Lanz auction catalogs. I guess they ran out of fake ancient coins to sell. It seems to be gone entirely now. Hubert Lanz was still involved -- and refusing to give people refunds for fakes! -- as recently as 2020 or so. You can probably find old threads about him on Coin Talk Edited June 9 by DonnaML 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax Posted June 9 · Member Share Posted June 9 Didn't he sell a 30k fake coin to Bradley Bowling and then quit IAPN to avoid the reimbursement? 2 1 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted June 9 · Supporter Share Posted June 9 Yes he sold one that then was authenticated by Sear who later changed his mind after NGC condemned it . Lanz then resigned from the IAPN to avoid repaying the buyer. I can't remember who was the purchaser. There was a long discussion on it elsewhere but years ago, where it surprised me quite how many of the Sear Certificates were backing unsound coins. No idea what percentage but by number there were a lot. 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted June 9 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 9 For the record, it's Bowlin, no g at the end. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ela126 Posted June 9 · Member Share Posted June 9 A friend today mentioned the Numisfitz on Biddr recently (and also eBay) is associated with the old Lanz. I don’t have anything beyond this comment which came from a rather knowledgeable source. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Theodosius Posted June 10 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 10 Good riddance! ☹️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientJoe Posted June 10 · Member Share Posted June 10 (edited) One of Lanz's last sales included a coin on the back of the catalog which was an obvious fake... Lanz tried to save face by holding a contest to identify which coin was fake in their sale (read: he didn't want to reprint the catalog). I was nearly stung by Brad's infamous fake tetradrachm as well. I had a dealer (not Lanz) pushing me to buy the coin privately, saying they had checked with other experts who all said the coin was real. I wasn't comfortable with it based on the odd style of the reverse - the coin just didn't "seem" right and I insisted on passing despite this dealer chewing me out for how much time they wasted (approximately three emails, and it was priced at $40K to me that point). They even told me Brad was bidding on the coin to try to validate the interest in it... It's unfortunate all around, especially with Brad never receiving a refund. The coin industry is generally above-board but there have been enough bad actors that it's worth asking around to other collectors to find who the "good folks" are. Edited June 10 by AncientJoe 6 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted June 10 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 10 I was told some years ago, by a dealer who had it directly from Hubert Lanz himself, that he (Lanz) had very little to do with the Ebay operation beyond lending it his name (and of course, reaping the lion's share of the profits.) This was long enough ago that Lanz still had a reputation to protect. I never tried to verify that, and it's plenty bad enough of course, if it's even true, and in any case, the truly ugly Bowlin/IAPN episode is all Hubert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted June 10 · Supporter Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, AncientJoe said: One of Lanz's last sales included a coin on the back of the catalog which was an obvious fake... Lanz tried to save face by holding a contest to identify which coin was fake in their sale (read: he didn't want to reprint the catalog). Wow. That is really bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted June 10 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted June 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, AncientJoe said: One of Lanz's last sales included a coin on the back of the catalog which was an obvious fake... Lanz tried to save face by holding a contest to identify which coin was fake in their sale (read: he didn't want to reprint the catalog). I was nearly stung by Brad's infamous fake tetradrachm as well. I had a dealer (not Lanz) pushing me to buy the coin privately, saying they had checked with other experts who all said the coin was real. I wasn't comfortable with it based on the odd style of the reverse - the coin just didn't "seem" right and I insisted on passing despite this dealer chewing me out for how much time they wasted (approximately three emails, and it was priced at $40K to me that point). They even told me Brad was bidding on the coin to try to validate the interest in it... It's unfortunate all around, especially with Brad never receiving a refund. The coin industry is generally above-board but there have been enough bad actors that it's worth asking around to other collectors to find who the "good folks" are. I hope the dealer who pushed you to buy it is now on your "do not trust" list! I'm surprised Brad didn't sue to recover the money -- maybe Lanz was judgment-proof by then. Edited June 10 by DonnaML 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun96 Posted June 10 · Member Share Posted June 10 12 hours ago, ela126 said: A friend today mentioned the Numisfitz on Biddr recently (and also eBay) is associated with the old Lanz. I don’t have anything beyond this comment which came from a rather knowledgeable source. If I remember correctly, just some of their former employees work at Numisfitz but there's no official link or agreement between Numisfitz and Lanz. Perhaps they managed to get some of their catalogue inventory because they do sell a lot of Lanz catalogues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted June 10 · Supporter Share Posted June 10 14 hours ago, AncientJoe said: dealer chewing me out for how much time they wasted (approximately three emails, and it was priced at $40K to me that point) They must be really spoiled with clients. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.