Roman music - what evidence?

[Dafydd]

@MrMonkeySwag96 posted a great post to show his T Cloelius denarius and included a video.

To me, the background Martial music in the post by  @MrMonkeySwag96 was instantly recognisable as "Roman" but what evidence is there that these sounds are 2000 years old? I more or less reached the conclusion that my recognition was subliminal and based on childhood memories of movies such as Ben Hur and Spartacus. How did the composers in the 1950's and 1960's arrive at that sound? It suits the epics with pomp and gravitas but is there any evidence of authenticity? I guess percussion would be constant.

This led me down a rabbit hole and I am still burrowing and came across this site ; https://www.soundcenter.it/indexeng.htm

I then found this on Youtube.  Read the comments, some of them are absolutely hilarious !

 

There has probably been a thread on the forum regarding instruments and music and I do recall something but couldn't find it. Any comments are welcomed. I'll end my post with an appropriate coin. I'd like to see other coins with a musical theme.

Augustus Ar. denarius, AVGVSTVS DIVI F, bare hd. r., rev., the Actian Apollo stg. l., holding plectrum and lyre, IMP X across fields, ACT in ex., Lugdunum mint (Sear, 1611; RIC 171a; Seaby 144).

ACTIUM VICTORY
RSC 1442

[expat]

Great idea for a thread.

Roman art depicts various woodwinds, "brass", percussion and stringed instruments.[93] Roman-style instruments are found in parts of the Empire where they did not originate, and indicate that music was among the aspects of Roman culture that spread throughout the provinces.

Tibia player accompanying a sacrifice led by Marcus Aurelius (Rome's Palazzo dei Conservatori)

and of course, the lyre

I look forward to other entries

 

[NewStyleKing]

I know that the GREEKS wrote music and small pieces of music and notation were carved and have been translated and played and recorded, try Youtube! The BBC once had a programme

 

[expat]

The aulos was of Greek origin but must have been carried forward in Republican times.

The competition between Marsyas and Apollo on a Roman sarcophagus (290–300)

A double reeded aulos

Mythological origin

In myth, Marsyas the satyr was supposed to have invented the aulos, or else picked it up after Athena had thrown it away because it caused her cheeks to puff out and ruined her beauty. In any case, he challenged Apollo to a musical contest, where the winner would be able to "do whatever he wanted" to the loser—Marsyas's expectation, typical of a satyr, was that this would be sexual in nature. But Apollo and his lyre beat Marsyas and his aulos. And since the pure lord of Delphi's mind worked in different ways from Marsyas's, he celebrated his victory by stringing his opponent up from a tree and flaying him alive.

PHRYGIA. Apameia. Ae (Circa 88-40 BC). Magistrate Attalos, son of Bianor, eglogistes.
Obv: Turreted head of Artemis-Tyche right, with bow and quiver over shoulder.
Rev: AΠAMEΩN / ATTAΛOY BIANOPOΣ.
Marsyas advancing right, playing aulos; menander pattern below.
BMC 62; HGC 7, 674. 5,49 g - 18,77 mm

 

[kevikens]

Excellent post. Quite some time ago I attended a Roman Catholic seminary and part of the curriculum was sacred music. At that time we still chanted Gregorian Chant (in Latin) and the subject of when that form of music appeared was part of the course. Of course, Gregorian Chant, at least as we used it, was medieval in origin and practice, several centuries after the collapse of the Western Empire. Our studies did include, however, what the Church "thought" it may have sounded like and I wish I had paid more attention to that. I seem to remember, however, that the Byzantines had a liturgy, including their version of chant, which of course did survive, possibly unchanged into our Middle Ages. It might be instructive to research Orthodox Catholic liturgical music to see if theirs has retained some of their music from the Ancient History period that can be identified as such. By the way, I have since learned something that Hollywood has botched up. The Roman Army did NOT use drums either for keeping marching order or conveying orders on the battlefield. For these they used brass wind instruments like the tuba and various kinds of "horns". Ancient navies may have used a kind of percussion log or chunk of wood for rowers  to keep the oar stroke in unison., but not the Roman Army for anything at all. Percussion instruments were used in Ancient Rome but were used for ceremonies and celebrations, especially religious ones. Again, great post and I hope to read plenty of responses to it.

[Deinomenid]

I know the question is Roman but there are plenty of Greek precedents too. Music was highly mathematical to the Pythagoreans for example. Here’s a chorus score from Euripides. Late 5th century BC. The “problem” is there are many quartertones which moderns say can’t be the case (as they sound strange to us) so these things get tortured until they sound good to us!

 

[kevikens]

1 hour ago, Deinomenid said:

I know the question is Roman but there are plenty of Greek precedents too. Music was highly mathematical to the Pythagoreans for example. Here’s a chorus score from Euripides. Late 5th century BC. The “problem” is there are many quartertones which moderns say can’t be the case (as they sound strange to us) so these things get tortured until they sound good to us!

 

I think I can hear the chorus of frogs croaking here, Breka kax,koax, koax

 

[MrMonkeySwag96]

The denarius that I showed in my video is a P. Maenius Antiaticus, not T. Cloelius. Actually, the music in my video is from Ben Hur. 

[DANTE]

Here's a happy flute/aulos player. Not a coin, but it fits the theme...

Lead decorative element (according to the seller likely from a mirror, according to the seller). Roman, ca.4th-5th cent., found in Israel. About 4x5 cm.

Usually lead doesn't age well, but here the details are all intact. It's not a part of any themed subcollection or something, just a piece that I liked. 

Still trying to figure out if he's sitting on a horse or a hippocamp....