A "Dos Equis" CM on a pharaonic owl

[robinjojo]

First, I got a troubling diagnosis from my doctor the other day.  Apparently I have terminal Hyperbolic Obsessive Owl Trauma Syndrome (HOOTS).  This unfortunate condition eventually leads the sufferer to purchase so many owls that the sheer number pose a threat of fatal burial.  There is no known cure, but I was assured that a drug is in the testing stages that, if successful, will transfer this obsession to accumulating  silver rounds after several administrations, which at least is a more socially acceptable obsession I am told.  It is okay to be hyperbolic, I was assured, really quite the norm these days, but owls are not mainstream.

But, getting back to current conditions, here is an interesting eastern or pharaonic owl with two clear "XX" countermarks on the obverse.  Why two?  My guess is that the individual punching the countermark die into the obverse was not satisfied with the first attempt, about 1.5 Xs, that a second, complete strike was made.  I doubt that this person at the time was employed by Dos Equis beer, though he (or she) might have had a pint or two of the local brew before undertaking this task.  This countermark appears in Richard F. Buxton's illustrations of countermarks, as #1.  The double Xs might be Phoenician Ts (taw).

On the reverse, a countermark was punched over the Θ.  This countermark seems to be an inverted V within a circle, similar to number 11 in Peter Van Alfen's ANS article on the 1989 Syrian hoard coins.  Finally, on the owls wing, is a cross countermark, which is a good match for number 15 of the 1973 Iraq Hoard.

Here's the coin:

Egypt or eastern mint, eastern or pharaonic owl, late 5th-mid 4th centuries BC.

17.05 grams

As these coins go, the centering is quite good.  The coin is somewhat porous, with a few horn silver deposits

 

And here are the countermark references:

So, please post your owls, countermarks or anything else, while go off and volunteer for the clinical trials.

Edited July 2 by robinjojo

[Romismatist]

 

I've posted my two rather worn and countermarked specimens here before, but this is a good excuse to post them again. I haven't been as successful in deciphering the mintmarks as @robinjojo but I understand that these would have circulated in the Levant. The one countermark on the cheek of the left coin could be #1 of the Iraq hoard...

[robinjojo]

Very nice examples! 

There seems to be a V countermark on the reverse of the left coin that might be a match for #19 of the Syria hoard illustrations. I don't think it is graffiti.  

A word about the test cuts on your coin.  Peter Van Alfen put forth the idea that these test cuts are not test cuts at all, but instead a crude system of identification of who or where the coin circulated.  He notes that the test cuts are almost always on the reverse (your coins an exception, where they are present on both sides), and in addition, they tend to be placed in specific areas, such as the point where the owl's head is connected to the body (basically horizontal or lateral).  The obverse cuts on your coins is are also very interesting in that they seem to be very precisely placed.  Why is this so?  The argument against a simple test cut would be that it really didn't matter how the cut was placed as long as it was deep enough to detect a copper core.  I've also seen very precisely placed cuts between the owl's eyes and along the length of the body on other coins.

There are other countermarks on the coins, and of course the references I posted are just illustrations of some, so those other countermarks might show up as more research is done.  The whole subject of these eastern owls is really quite complex and a work in progress.  One problem though, is getting hoard information, as these coins are quickly sold on the marketplace after discovery.

Here are a few more countermarked owls, Athenian and imitative.

D-Camera Athens-Persian or Arabian imitation tetradrachm countermarks  circa 333 BC.

17.06 grams

 

It's sister coin, also Persian or Arabian in origin.  

16.84 grams

With this example we have a countermark that was punched over an earlier countermark.  On the reverse is a punch mark, which some scholars think was used as a means to detect silver plated counterfeits.  Others think this is just another applied identification mark.  

I've been leaning towards attributing both of these coins as satrapal Persian coins, based on the style, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Here's an Athenian classical owl, 440-404 BC, with an apparent goat's or sheep's knuckle bone counterstamp on the obverse.

17.06 grams

 

This is a group of three lower grade owls, basically "as is", two to the left probably eastern imitations (the middle one possibly pharaonic), while the third to the right is an Athenian Pi-style owl.  These coins came from Israel a few years ago as a group, and all have countermarks that need identification, if possible

 

Here's an Athenian tetradrachm after 440-404 BC with an apparent Phoenician countermark W (waw) punched sideways, similar to #16 from the Syrian hoard.

17.0 grams

 

Athens Pi-style tetradrachm 4th century BC, with a punch mark obverse and a counter mark reverse.  From Israel in 2021.

16.7 grams

 

One of my favorites, this Athenian 4th century  BC Pi-style owl "log" has a heart-shaped silphium counterstamp on the obverse.  From Israel in 2021.

16.3 grams

 

This late 5th century - mid 4th century BC eastern imitation owl appears to have a Phoenician M (mem), counterstamp on the reverse.

17.03 grams

 

This pharaonic owl late 5th-mid 4th century BC has a reverse Aramaic letter (He) countermark on the reverse.  This is a Buttrey-Flament Miscellaneous type.

17.08 grams

The countermark is similar to #26 in the Syrian hoard countermarks illustrations.  It is also one that I have seen before placed in virtually the same location on other owls.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3 by robinjojo

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I'm enjoying the different examples being illustrated.  My only owls are imitative although I'm more jazzed about the possibly Egyptian one.

The 'real' owls are just too much for me to justify.  And the better-done imitatives could potentially have been spendable in Athens?

Is 37 Cthulu?

[Roerbakmix]

21 hours ago, robinjojo said:

First, I got a troubling diagnosis from my doctor the other day.  Apparently I have terminal Hyperbolic Obsessive Owl Trauma Syndrome (HOOTS).  This unfortunate condition eventually leads the sufferer to purchase so many owls that the sheer number pose a threat of fatal burial.  There is no known cure, but I was assured that a drug is in the testing stages that, if successful, will transfer this obsession to accumulating  silver rounds after several administrations, which at least is a more socially acceptable obsession I am told.  It is okay to be hyperbolic, I was assured, really quite the norm these days, but owls are not mainstream.

I also suffer from a similar disease, Hyperbolic Obsessive Sceatta Trauma Syndrome (HOSTS). Luckily, they're much smaller than attic tetradrachms. 

[robinjojo]

2 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I'm enjoying the different examples being illustrated.  My only owls are imitative although I'm more jazzed about the possibly Egyptian one.

The 'real' owls are just too much for me to justify.  And the better-done imitatives could potentially have been spendable in Athens?

Is 37 Cthulu?

Yes, the focus of most coin collectors, ancient or otherwise, is to own an Athenian tetradrachm, preferably one in the classical style.  The Pi-Style and New Style owls, especially the former, are not in a great a demand, although New Style prices and bidding can be very healthy for nice and/or rare examples. 

The eastern imitations are still a under-researched type compared to the well-researched Athenian archaic and classical owls. The problem with these coins is the large geo-political area where they were produced, very complex in nature, ranging from Egypt all the way east to Bactria and India.  Hoard information is spotty for these coins, unlike the generally more systematic hoard documentation in Europe.  That's the challenge that these coins pose and what, at least for me, makes them fascinating.

Here's one more worn owl, probably an eastern imitation, with an interesting spiral countermark on the obverse, photographed this morning before the heat sets in.  Note that the cut on the reverse is between the owl's head and body, similar to the cut on Romantist's right example.

Eastern imitation owl late 5th to mid 4th century BC.  "Spiral" CM on the obverse.

16.90 grams

 

[Al Kowsky]

On 7/2/2024 at 4:49 PM, robinjojo said:

First, I got a troubling diagnosis from my doctor the other day.  Apparently I have terminal Hyperbolic Obsessive Owl Trauma Syndrome (HOOTS).  This unfortunate condition eventually leads the sufferer to purchase so many owls that the sheer number pose a threat of fatal burial.  There is no known cure, but I was assured that a drug is in the testing stages that, if successful, will transfer this obsession to accumulating  silver rounds after several administrations, which at least is a more socially acceptable obsession I am told.  It is okay to be hyperbolic, I was assured, really quite the norm these days, but owls are not mainstream.

But, getting back to current conditions, here is an interesting eastern or pharaonic owl with two clear "XX" countermarks on the obverse.  Why two?  My guess is that the individual punching the countermark die into the obverse was not satisfied with the first attempt, about 1.5 Xs, that a second, complete strike was made.  I doubt that this person at the time was employed by Dos Equis beer, though he (or she) might have had a pint or two of the local brew before undertaking this task.  This countermark appears in Richard F. Buxton's illustrations of countermarks, as #1.  The double Xs might be Phoenician Ts (taw).

On the reverse, a countermark was punched over the Θ.  This countermark seems to be an inverted V within a circle, similar to number 11 in Peter Van Alfen's ANS article on the 1989 Syrian hoard coins.  Finally, on the owls wing, is a cross countermark, which is a good match for number 15 of the 1973 Iraq Hoard.

Here's the coin:

Egypt or eastern mint, eastern or pharaonic owl, late 5th-mid 4th centuries BC.

17.05 grams

As these coins go, the centering is quite good.  The coin is somewhat porous, with a few horn silver deposits

 

And here are the countermark references:

So, please post your owls, countermarks or anything else, while go off and volunteer for the clinical trials.

                                                        Dos Equis is the best Mexican beer 🤣

[kirispupis]

Interesting countermark. I have this Pharaonic owl.

EGYPT, Pharaonic Kingdom. Uncertain pharaoh(s)
Late 5th–mid 4th centuries BCE
AR Tetradrachm 24mm, 17.03 g, 8h
Imitating Athens. Helmeted head of Athena right, with frontal eye / Owl standing right, head facing; olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square. Van Alfen, Mechanisms, Group III.A.1, Fig. 2 = Buttrey Type M. Ex
Ex NGC encapsulation 5872733-112, graded XF, Strike: 5/5, Surface: 3/5.
Ex Ponterio 1985
Ex Robert W. Bartlett Bequest Sold for the Benefit of the American Numismatic Society

 

And a few imitations from Egypt.

Egypt, Achaemenid Province. Sabakes, satrap, AR Tetradrachm. Circa 340-333 BCE
16.61g, 25mm, 9h.
Head of Athena to right, wearing earring, necklace, and crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl / Owl standing to right with head facing, olive sprig with berry and crescent in upper left field; uncertain letters to left, ""Sabakes symbol"" and SWYK (in Aramaic) to right.
Van Alfen Type III, 24-34 var. (O11/R- [unlisted rev. die]); Nicolet-Pierre, Monnaies 18-26 (same obv. die); SNG Copenhagen 4 var. (no letters on left of rev.); BMC 265 var. (same).

 

EGYPT, Achaemenid Province. Artaxerxes III Okhos. As Pharaoh of Egypt
343/2-338/7 BCE
AR Tetradrachm (26mm, 15.07 g, 9h)
Imitating Athens. Head of Athena right, with frontal eye, wearing earring and crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl
Owl standing right, head facing; olive spray and crescent to left, “Artaxerxes Pharaoh” in two-line Demotic A script to right.
two test cuts on either side, obv. punch.
Van Alfen Type I, 1–5 = Price, More 147–9; O. Mørkholm, “A Coin of Artaxerxes III” in NC 1974, pl. I, 7–8; cf. Meadows, Administration 329; Mildenberg, Münzwesen 124. 

[robinjojo]

33 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

Interesting countermark. I have this Pharaonic owl.

EGYPT, Pharaonic Kingdom. Uncertain pharaoh(s)
Late 5th–mid 4th centuries BCE
AR Tetradrachm 24mm, 17.03 g, 8h
Imitating Athens. Helmeted head of Athena right, with frontal eye / Owl standing right, head facing; olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square. Van Alfen, Mechanisms, Group III.A.1, Fig. 2 = Buttrey Type M. Ex
Ex NGC encapsulation 5872733-112, graded XF, Strike: 5/5, Surface: 3/5.
Ex Ponterio 1985
Ex Robert W. Bartlett Bequest Sold for the Benefit of the American Numismatic Society

 

And a few imitations from Egypt.

Egypt, Achaemenid Province. Sabakes, satrap, AR Tetradrachm. Circa 340-333 BCE
16.61g, 25mm, 9h.
Head of Athena to right, wearing earring, necklace, and crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl / Owl standing to right with head facing, olive sprig with berry and crescent in upper left field; uncertain letters to left, ""Sabakes symbol"" and SWYK (in Aramaic) to right.
Van Alfen Type III, 24-34 var. (O11/R- [unlisted rev. die]); Nicolet-Pierre, Monnaies 18-26 (same obv. die); SNG Copenhagen 4 var. (no letters on left of rev.); BMC 265 var. (same).

 

EGYPT, Achaemenid Province. Artaxerxes III Okhos. As Pharaoh of Egypt
343/2-338/7 BCE
AR Tetradrachm (26mm, 15.07 g, 9h)
Imitating Athens. Head of Athena right, with frontal eye, wearing earring and crested Attic helmet decorated with three olive leaves over visor and a spiral palmette on the bowl
Owl standing right, head facing; olive spray and crescent to left, “Artaxerxes Pharaoh” in two-line Demotic A script to right.
two test cuts on either side, obv. punch.
Van Alfen Type I, 1–5 = Price, More 147–9; O. Mørkholm, “A Coin of Artaxerxes III” in NC 1974, pl. I, 7–8; cf. Meadows, Administration 329; Mildenberg, Münzwesen 124. 

Nice examples!  I always enjoy them when posted.  That Artaxerxes III Okhos owl is a tough one to locate.  There's still a gap in my accumulation with that satrap.  

I've been thinking recently about that Mazakes owl that I've had now for several years.  It's is pretty rough corroded condition, over cleaned really, which is a shame, but the Aramaic for Mazakes' name on the reverse is very bold and very linear, almost as if it were stamped into the coin.  I assumed, as did Roma, that this owl was produced by Mazakes.  Now I'm thinking that the coin itself is one of those pharaonic/eastern imitations.  That would explain the very different treatment of Athena and owl on this coin when compared to other Mazakes owls, whose owls were patterned. rather loosely, after the intermediate Pi-style Athenian owls of the fourth century BC.  So my guess is that the Mazakes on the reverse is a counterstamp that was applied over the AOE.  If you look closely to the field around the name, it seems to be incused slightly, which lends support to the countermark theory.  This all makes sense, and it also makes this coin quite unusual.

Egypt or eastern imitation tetradrachm, with a Mazakes countermark, c 331-323 BC.

15.92 grams

 

What do you think?

Edited July 4 by robinjojo

[kirispupis]

My understanding of the Mazakes' owls is they're believed to have been produced in Mesopatamia. Here's mine, which isn't in the best of shapes...

Mazakes as Satrap of Mesopotamia
c. 331-323/2 BCE
AR tetradrachm 19mm, 16.87g
Imitating types of Athens. Head of Athena r., wearing Attic helmet/ Owl stranding r., head facing; to l., crescent; to r., Aramaic legend.
Le Rider, Alexander, pp. 214-9; Van Alfen, Group IVb

[robinjojo]

So I'm guessing that the countermark was used as an economic expedient to increase authorized coins for circulation without going to the trouble of the minting process.  This is assuming that these owl imitations circulated broadly with some ending up in Mesopotamia (Iraq).  Hoards were discovered in Northwest Syria in 1989 and in Iraq in 1973.  I'd be pretty safe to that innumerable hoards, large and small were discovered over the past decades and quickly dispersed.

That's a very nice example, by the way!