Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted July 9 · Member Share Posted July 9 (edited) Being a bit of an opportunist I picked up this humble and fairly cheap slightly debased gold coin. It's presumably clipped and a bit worn, but I considered this the best one of the ones which were remaining. There was one which was allegedly rarer and $100 more, but I used the difference on two throw-in coins. It's a bit confusing how I should catalog the coin. The listing was as such: Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud (AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060). Caliph al-Qa'im (AH 422-467 / AD 1031-1075). Title of Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu'minin So, is Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud the local leader of Ghazni? What's the Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu-minin? What does a full example look like and what should it weigh? This was the best compromise example of those available. The gold wasn't too pale and this was one of the larger/heavier ones. It was also pretty cheap. Attribution: Album 1633 Date: AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060 Size: 24.58mm Weight: 3.05 grams This was a throw-in, chosen for its large flan. The description states 32.53mm, but it must be c. 35 or 36mm high. Sear 805 is the comfort food of the Byzantine series, and I must have at least 10 of these, perhaps more. The listing noted a tag of a "well-known dealer". It was the same yellow color and font of HJB, but didn't have th ename on it, and HJB generally has a printed back with the firm name. The coin's probably a bit too ugly for HJB, so I guess it might be a mystery. I've also seen tags of Nick Ecounopolis (probably butchering the name), which also looked similar, IIRC, but that also had a name on it. Attribution: May 408 type Date: 375-360 BC Obverse: ABΔHPI / TEΩN, griffin crouching left Reverse: M O - Π - E I - ??, head of Apollo right in linear square border Size: 15.27mm Weight: 2.27 grams The leathery surfaces shown on the picture concerned me a bit, but it's from a reputable dealer, and is probably due to crystallization. However, in person the coin looks far better and the price was low. I'm glad I tossed this one into the shopping basket. Edited July 9 by Nerosmyfavorite68 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted July 9 · Member Share Posted July 9 @Nerosmyfavorite68, you might get some helpwith the legend from @AnYangMan's wildly erudite comments on this post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted July 9 · Member Share Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said: It's a bit confusing how I should catalog the coin. The listing was as such: Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud (AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060). Caliph al-Qa'im (AH 422-467 / AD 1031-1075). Title of Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu'minin So, is Farrukhzad ibn Mas'ud the local leader of Ghazni? What's the Abu Shuja' & mu'ayyid al-mu-minin? What does a full example look like and what should it weigh? This was the best compromise example of those available. The gold wasn't too pale and this was one of the larger/heavier ones. It was also pretty cheap. Attribution: Album 1633 Date: AH 444-451 / AD 1053-1060 Size: 24.58mm Weight: 3.05 grams The ruler's full protocol is Jamal al-Dawla wa Kamal al-Milla Abu Shuja' Farrukhzad bin Mas'ud Mu'ayyad Amir al-Mu'minin. Because the die is only so large, he is cited as Abu Shuja' Farrukhzad Mu'ayyad Amir al-Mu'minin. For practical collector purposes, "Farrukhzad" is enough. Farrukhzad was sultan of the Ghaznavid Empire. The coin also cites his spiritual overlord, the 'Abbasid caliph al-Qa'im. The mint and date are legible: Ghazna, AH [4]44. Album 1633. https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=49107 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farrukh-Zad_of_Ghazna Edited July 9 by DLTcoins 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMonkeySwag96 Posted July 9 · Member Share Posted July 9 (edited) Last year I bought a silver stater from @KenDorney that was formerly from the inventory of Nick Economopoulos. The coin came with Nick’s tag, however I haven’t taken a picture of the tag. I’m too lazy to dig through all my paperwork to look for it: Lucania, Metapontion, 340 - 330 BC Silver Stater, 19mm, 7.53 grams Obverse: Wreathed head of Demeter right. Reverse: Ear of barley with leaf on left, mouse above leaf, META upwards on right. BMC 123 // Johnston Class A, 8.16 // HN Italy 1570 ex Economopoulos Numismatics, with his tag. Edited July 9 by MrMonkeySwag96 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted July 9 · Member Author Share Posted July 9 IIRC the very nice Alexius III trachy with his tag had similar font, but was full-sized and bore his name at the bottom. What should a dinar of that time weigh? Trawling through vcoins I'm seeing a couple of listings as high as 4.3, but the low 3's seems to be the most common weight for the Ghaznavids. Is 4 the 'norm'? It's a shade more pale than a Nicephorus III electrum nomisma that I have; a Nicephorus which is on the 'finer' side of his reign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted July 10 · Member Author Share Posted July 10 Thanks, @JeandAcre and @DLTcoins, for the information. Was the clipping to conform to some later standard? The Abdera tetrobol was kind of the sleeper of the group. I didn't expect to like it but the griffin makes it my favorite of the lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeandAcre Posted July 10 · Member Share Posted July 10 Hi again, @Nerosmyfavorite68. I couldn't confirm it in this instance but, as it sounds like you already knew, 'official' clipping was a common Islamic means of remonetization. I've seen lots of it in Andalusian coins, especially the taifas (later 11th c. CE), in both gold and silver. Frequently, a prominent 'tell' is that, since it was official, no real attempt was made even to be discrete about it. Here are two, less and more like your example, respectively. Valencia, Al-Malik, half-dinar (Vives 1078). Toledo and Valencia, Yahya al-Mamun. Electrum fractional dinar (less pale in hand). Vives 1097. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted July 12 · Member Author Share Posted July 12 The price for the dinar was cheap and the coin is fairly forgettable, but the educational value was high, and isn't that what numismatics are (or should be) all about? I forgot to add, the mystery tag for the Heraclius was about 40% as large as regular HJB tags. I should just email the dealer and ask if he remembers who the 'well-known' dealer was. The original tag states aVF, but it's more like aF. One wonders how long the 805's stayed in circulation. It must have been quite a while, and that also brings up the mystery of how they were valued compared to the shrunken later issues. I have 10+ 805's, but if I have an 806, it must have been an Allen Berman junk box one. I have no records of having one. Anybody remember the 4 coins for $20 deal? That was fun. The 1990's coins were about the same quality as the Heraclius, albeit with a better desert patina and usually not as large. The post office did try and destroy the package; it arrived crumpled and a bit dirty, but the contents survived. The Marc B advertising round coin insert acts as both advertising and as the cardboard inner mailer. I found those quite useful as coasters under the glasses in my kitchen show cabinet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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