Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 (edited) I caught this Caracalla Denarius at Baldwin yesterday. It was discussed in some Facebook groups weeks ago, so I'm surprised that the denarius wasn't bid even higher. Apparently the type was published / mentioned by Cohen in 1862, but since then such a type has never appeared on sale again. I haven't found anything (which may not mean that much now) - but even the "experts" in the Facebook groups have searched and searched and have not found this denarius type in past auctions (even pre-internet). Either way, it seems to be rare. I'm glad, didn't think I'd get the coin. But now I have to take my time at the weekend to research whether everything is correct and fits. Link to Lot at Baldwin Auction Description taken from Baldwins: Quote Caracalla (AD 198-217) AR Denarius, Laodicea ad Mare, AD 200, 3.46g. ANTONINVS AVGVSTVS, laureate draped and cuirassed bust of Caracalla right. Rev. PONT-IFEX TR P III, emperor standing left, holding Victory and sceptre, bound captive to left. (C. 408; RIC 343). Extremely Fine. Very Rare. Described as simply ‘same type’ as the aureus, 407, in Cohen without further elaboration. No other denarii of this type present on CoinArchives. Feel free to post more coins, rare or not, whatever you think fits the theme. And I'm going to go looking for this guy now. Edited July 11 by Prieure de Sion 6 1 2 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 Lovely coin, and no doubt of the highest rarity - but it seems to me it would be very hard to state definitively that it has not appeared on the market since 1862. One would need to scrutinize every sales list and auction catalog of the past 160 years and even that might not be enough since there are always private transactions. Is it a die match to the aureus type? 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, CPK said: Lovely coin, and no doubt of the highest rarity - but it seems to me it would be very hard to state definitively that it has not appeared on the market since 1862. One would need to scrutinize every sales list and auction catalog of the past 160 years and even that might not be enough since there are always private transactions. Thats the "problem" - I think you can't say "never sold" - thats the reason why I write "never" in inverted commas. It will never be possible to rule out with 100% certainty that a sale of this type has never taken place. How could you check that? As you rightly say. It should be very, very rare indeed. I'll make do with "the only publicly known example to date". 4 minutes ago, CPK said: Is it a die match to the aureus type? I will start researching this evening or tomorrow at my leisure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasiel Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 Definitely rare due to there being a ton of minor variants around this type. There's a good chance of finding some on on Coryssa though, which hosts over 20,000 of his denarii. Rasiel 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 30 minutes ago, rasiel said: There's a good chance of finding some on on Coryssa though, which hosts over 20,000 of his denarii. Nope - I try.. Not with search reference RIC 343, not with RSC 408 or Cohen 408. Not with alone the reverse legend PONTIFEX TR P Iii etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 This post seems to be an advertisement for a coin the dealer just bought and is now reselling. Such posts should be deleted. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 12 minutes ago, ajax said: This post seems to be an advertisement for a coin the dealer just bought and is now reselling. Such posts should be deleted. I don't need such deliberate advertising. Especially as 99% of the users here know me and my shop 🙂 - I have also removed the logo. My shop is not just a shop - I also show my private coins there. But they are not for sale, so to speak. You can recognise such coins by their collector's price - or do you really believe that anyone will really buy this Caracalla worth 300-500 USD in a shop for 2000 USD? Incidentally, many retailers have their favourite pieces at high prices in their shops because they don't want to sell some of them. This is an old topic. Old hat. But again - I don't need any surreptitious advertising here or anywhere else. I and my coins are known everywhere. But you can also do what you did last time. Trying to cause trouble here. But isn't this getting boring? Otherwise - why don't you take part in the topic itself? Show your Severer - or take care of other threads. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, rasiel said: Definitely rare due to there being a ton of minor variants around this type. There's a good chance of finding some on on Coryssa though, which hosts over 20,000 of his denarii. Rasiel I forgot to say thx - shame on me - I didn't even know the site. Thank you! You learn again and again! I've only searched with the RIC and Cohen references and the legend, but haven't found anything. But I'll have a closer look at the weekend. Another very interesting database though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 19 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said: I don't need such deliberate advertising. Especially as 99% of the users here know me and my shop 🙂 - I have also removed the logo. My shop is not just a shop - I also show my private coins there. But they are not for sale, so to speak. You can recognise such coins by their collector's price - or do you really believe that anyone will really buy this Caracalla worth 300-500 USD in a shop for 2000 USD? Incidentally, many retailers have their favourite pieces at high prices in their shops because they don't want to sell some of them. This is an old topic. Old hat. But again - I don't need any surreptitious advertising here or anywhere else. I and my coins are known everywhere. But you can also do what you did last time. Trying to cause trouble here. But isn't this getting boring? Otherwise - why don't you take part in the topic itself? Show your Severer - or take care of other threads. Thank you. Yes same story again. Flipping coins that are not in your hands but in this case you say it's from your private collection and not for sale. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 38 minutes ago, ajax said: This post seems to be an advertisement for a coin the dealer just bought and is now reselling. Such posts should be deleted. I see nothing objectionable in this thread at all. The fact that the OP is a dealer and the coin is for sale does not bar him from discussing it here. It's an interesting and rare type worthy of discussion. There is no advertising going on and anyway, it is permitted to advertise and sell on this platform. If anything, I think your post is a violation of the spirit of this place, not @Prieure de Sion's. 5 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted July 11 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 11 I also have zero problem with Prieure showcasing an attractive and genuinely rare coin. I'd ask those objecting to this post to point out how NF is in any way harmed by it. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 41 minutes ago, ajax said: Yes same story again. Yes, same story, make trouble here. Why don't you use your energy here for great contributions that show or help other users? There is a climate here of working together - not against each other. 43 minutes ago, ajax said: Flipping coins that are not in your hands but in this case you say it's from your private collection and not for sale. If you don't like my business model, that's no problem. Were you forced to buy from me? No. My other customers - they are all grown up enough - like it. And for you - WHEN I want make advertisement, then I will use the xtra Thread for that: I am not alone as a dealer - many dealers make here advertisement. 46 minutes ago, CPK said: it is permitted to advertise and sell on this platform. Thats it - but as I said - I set this Caracalla up to 2.000 USD - no one buy this coin. But the theme here was this Caracalla Denarius (not selling coins) - lets go back to the topic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 Maybe @ajax can explain why showing a fantastic example of a rare type is in any way detrimental to this site, for sale or otherwise. There are so many threads to get interactive with, and so many subjects to create a thread about, and so much knowledge to be gained, it would be almost impossible to denigrate such a post with so much available to get involved in. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, rasiel said: Definitely rare due to there being a ton of minor variants around this type. There's a good chance of finding some on on Coryssa though, which hosts over 20,000 of his denarii. Rasiel Cool! I find a similar - or same? - example at a CNG Auction in a Lot. CNG, Auction 475, Lot 10 It was a package of 6 coins - one of them described CNG as the following: Quote From the Richard McAlee Collection. 10d Caracalla. AD 198-217. AR Denarius (18mm, 3.50 g, 12h). Rome mint. Struck AD 200. ANTONINVS AVGVSTVS, laureate and draped bust right / PONTIF TR P III, Sol standing facing, head left, holding globe and inverted spear. RIC IV 30b; BMCRE 179 note (Septimius & Caracalla); RSC 408. VF. CNG describe it as Cohen 408 - bit RIC 30b - and the Reverse Legend is different. As you said @rasiel there are some varieties. The Legend of the CNG coin was PONTIF (mine was PONTIFEX) - but did anybody can read the legend complete and correct at the CNG example? This was the only near similar Example I will find. Weekend I will try to use the KI-Search engine 🙂 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akeady Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 (edited) That last coin (from CNG?) seems to have a PRINCIPI IVVENTVTIS - one of these: https://numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=denomination_facet%3A"Denarius"+AND+portrait_facet%3A"Caracalla"+AND+fulltext%3APRINCIPI Nice buy! - if it was never sold before, where did Baldwin's get it, or their consignor? ATB, Aidan. Edited July 11 by akeady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Kowsky Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 5 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said: I caught this Caracalla Denarius at Baldwin yesterday. It was discussed in some Facebook groups weeks ago, so I'm surprised that the denarius wasn't bid even higher. Apparently the type was published / mentioned by Cohen in 1862, but since then such a type has never appeared on sale again. I haven't found anything (which may not mean that much now) - but even the "experts" in the Facebook groups have searched and searched and have not found this denarius type in past auctions (even pre-internet). Either way, it seems to be rare. I'm glad, didn't think I'd get the coin. But now I have to take my time at the weekend to research whether everything is correct and fits. Link to Lot at Baldwin Auction Description taken from Baldwins: Feel free to post more coins, rare or not, whatever you think fits the theme. And I'm going to go looking for this guy now. P. de Sion, Congrats on a great score 🤩! I have a tetradrachm of Caracalla from Laodicea ad Mare, pictured below. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 2 minutes ago, akeady said: Nice buy! - if it was never sold before, where did Baldwin's get it, or their consignor? What kind of idiot am I? 😄 Why didn't I come up with the idea myself? I didn't ask Baldwin anything. Why? Thank you - I didn't think of it myself - I'll do that straight away. Perhaps Baldwin can and may tell me something about the consignor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 Just now, Al Kowsky said: from Laodicea ad Mare The Severians and their Laodicea issues are one of the best in the Rome Minting - my opinion 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 Here is a family get together 7 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 11 · Member Author Share Posted July 11 Just now, expat said: Here is a family get together A fantastic family collection! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted July 11 · Supporter Share Posted July 11 Here is the man of the thread CARACALLA AR Denarius. Victoria - VICT PART MAX. Obverse: ANTONINVS PIVS AVG. Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust to right. Reverse: VICT PART MAX. Victory advancing left, holding palm and wreath. A good example of this interesting coin, celebrating the roman victory over the Parthian empire during the reign of Septimius Severus. RIC IV-1 144a. RSC 660. Rome mint, A.D. 204. 3,2 g - 18 mm. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Kowsky Posted July 11 · Member Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said: What kind of idiot am I? 😄 Why didn't I come up with the idea myself? I didn't ask Baldwin anything. Why? Thank you - I didn't think of it myself - I'll do that straight away. Perhaps Baldwin can and may tell me something about the consignor. P. de Sion, Don't be surprised if Baldwin won't tell you who the consigner was; some collectors consign with an anonymity clause as I've done in the past 😉. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted July 12 · Member Share Posted July 12 8 hours ago, ajax said: This post seems to be an advertisement for a coin the dealer just bought and is now reselling. Such posts should be deleted. 100% agree, this is not an adds board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrachyEnjoyer Posted July 12 · Member Share Posted July 12 19 minutes ago, El Cazador said: This is not an adds board, we don’t promote goods or services here Exactly. And, we (or at least I) also don’t support drop shipping and the sale of goods that the seller doesn’t yet have possession of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restitutor Posted July 12 · Administrator Share Posted July 12 This thread violates no rules, explicit or implicit. An occasional post from a seller highlighting an interesting object for sale is fine by me. I would note that in this instance I don’t even see Prieure attempting to sell the coin in this thread anyways, so not sure why it’s being viewed by some as an ad. Hopefully once in hand Prieure will show us all some more pics or an in-hand video as this is quite a magnificent coin! 🙂 8 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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