MadisonCoins Posted July 17 · Member Share Posted July 17 Hi everyone, New to the forum but hoping you all can assist with something I'm working on in my University museum. I've come across two "sestertii" that are derived from Cavino. I'm quite certain they're from Cavino as they are unique issues (my evidence below) but my question is: are these struck originals or later casts? My general assumption is that original strikes (example) would be fairly "crisp" while the later casts would degrade (example). My gut tells me these are casts but I've only worked with coins for a few years so I'm seeking some second opinions. The two coins are "sestertii" of Caligula (obverse / reverse) (Weight is 24.5g. Diameter is 36mm.) and Claudius (obverse / reverse) (Weight is 28g. Diameter is 37mm). Videos in hands attached. Evidence for the attribution to Cavino is below. Any help comments and critiques appreciated! Evidence for being Cavinos My two sources of information and reference are: Klawans, Zander: “Imitations and inventions of Roman coins : Renaissance medals of Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire”, Society for International Numismatics, Santa Monica, 1977 and Lawrence, R.H.: “Medals by Giovanni Cavino the Paduan”, 1883. My arguments for being from Cavino are: The Caligula: the obverse and reverse are a very close duplication of RIC I 40, however, the reverse design on genuine sestertii lack the S-C that is present on this coin. The correct attribution is for Klawans 7 and Lawrence 13-1 (see attached PDFs). The Claudius: The obverse is a copy of a genuine sestertius of Claudius (i.e. RIC I 115), however, the reverse design is a copy of a Vespasian type (RIC II.1 206) which would not appear to for another 20 years. The correct attribution is Klawans 4 and Lawrence 15 (see attached PDFs). Caligula-reduced.mov Claudius-reduced.mov Klawans-4.pdf Klawans-7.pdf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 17 · Member Share Posted July 17 It is often very difficult to determine exactly whether it is a Cavino, a posthumous Cavino with original stamps or a copied stamps. Long story short - you can distinguish between the following ‘Paduans’. 1. Original Cavino designed stamps and issued in its time. 2. Embossed issues with Cavino original stamps after his death. 3. Copied stamps during his lifetime and after Cavino's death. 4. Modern stamp copies of more recent times. Last year I spoke at length with an Italian expert who has done a lot of research on Cavino and his work. Original Cavino stamps can be recognised by their excellent style, but also by the very detailed and sharp embossing. Copies, imitations, later editions can be easily recognised by the very soft / slightly washed-out embossing, faint lettering etc. I think your two pieces are later copies. The typeface is soft, the depictions (portrait) are softer. Not modern copies - but ‘after Cavino’. This is an original Cavino stamp (even if patinated later): You can find more information here: https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/yoshua_three_coins/315/product/_cavino_medal__rrr_caligula_three_sisters_cf_ric_33_date_3738_ad_ae_bronze_sestertius_rome/2043078/Default.aspx Just compare the pronounced and sharp letters on the original Cavino stamp and your two examples. Compare the heads. Compare the high-quality artistic style. I'm not a professional, of course, and it's very difficult to find experts who can make a clear assignment anyway - and even they don't always agree. But from the information I've had explained to me - your two pieces are ‘after Cavino’ - I'm pretty sure of that. Although probably ‘contemporary’ ones from an older period (not ‘cheap’ modern copies). 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadisonCoins Posted July 17 · Member Author Share Posted July 17 @Prieure de Sion Thank you for the detailed response. There is certainly a stark difference between your example and mine. I appreciate your experience in this matter! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted July 18 · Patron Share Posted July 18 Oh, both clearly aftercasts of aftercasts of aftercasts. They are very soft and "soapy." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrdenarius Posted July 20 · Member Share Posted July 20 On 7/17/2024 at 5:57 PM, Prieure de Sion said: Last year I spoke at length with an Italian expert who has done a lot of research on Cavino and his work. Do you know the metal composition (Copper, Tin, Zinc, Lead) of Cavino and similar medals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted July 20 · Member Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, rrdenarius said: Do you know the metal composition (Copper, Tin, Zinc, Lead) of Cavino and similar medals? I am not - but the expert I have spoken published a very good publication. I will try to find it (again)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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