Leu: Ineptitude or worse?

[Hrefn]

Via Biddr I placed 18 bids in Leu’s Web Auction 30, and I was the high biddr on two lots.  I have yet to receive an invoice.  I have sent Leu two emails inquiring about this, to their “info” email, and there has been no response to either.  

The poor communication is pretty inept, so that characterization is certainly true.  Especially since I have received two generic emails from Leu during this time, one of which was asking about selling my collection.  So some one is in the office.

Here is a screenshot of a portion of my biddr page.  Does anyone have any insight into what is happening here?  I clearly entered bids for two lots which were greater than the hammer price, one of them substantially higher.  

[El Cazador]

30 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

Via Biddr I placed 18 bids in Leu’s Web Auction 30, and I was the high biddr on two lots.  I have yet to receive an invoice.  I have sent Leu two emails inquiring about this, to their “info” email, and there has been no response to either.  

The poor communication is pretty inept, so that characterization is certainly true.  Especially since I have received two generic emails from Leu during this time, one of which was asking about selling my collection.  So some one is in the office.

Here is a screenshot of a portion of my biddr page.  Does anyone have any insight into what is happening here?  I clearly entered bids for two lots which were greater than the hammer price, one of them substantially higher.  

Yeah, they have great coins, but shipping, potential shill bidding concerns, customer service, communication and description of coins, especially indicating  surface issues is concerning …

Edited August 10 by El Cazador

[ajax]

32 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

Via Biddr I placed 18 bids in Leu’s Web Auction 30, and I was the high biddr on two lots.  I have yet to receive an invoice.  I have sent Leu two emails inquiring about this, to their “info” email, and there has been no response to either.  

The poor communication is pretty inept, so that characterization is certainly true.  Especially since I have received two generic emails from Leu during this time, one of which was asking about selling my collection.  So some one is in the office.

Here is a screenshot of a portion of my biddr page.  Does anyone have any insight into what is happening here?  I clearly entered bids for two lots which were greater than the hammer price, one of them substantially higher.  

What does the * mean, is there a footnote maybe? Lot 2686 says : Bidder 4 950 CHF 01-Jul-24 12:02:44. Was that you?

It's not a good idea to place pre-bids, no matter who the auctionner is.

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, Hrefn said:

Via Biddr I placed 18 bids in Leu’s Web Auction 30, and I was the high biddr on two lots.  I have yet to receive an invoice.  I have sent Leu two emails inquiring about this, to their “info” email, and there has been no response to either.  

The poor communication is pretty inept, so that characterization is certainly true.  Especially since I have received two generic emails from Leu during this time, one of which was asking about selling my collection.  So some one is in the office.

Here is a screenshot of a portion of my biddr page.  Does anyone have any insight into what is happening here?  I clearly entered bids for two lots which were greater than the hammer price, one of them substantially higher.  

Do you have an account at Leu? If so, you can sign in and check the status of your bids to see if you are shown as the winning bidder. If not, and you bid only through Biddr, did you ever receive notification that your bid was accepted by Leu? 

[Restitutor]

August is notoriously slow for European companies since seemingly the entire continent gets the month off. And if you’re detecting some American jealousy, I am very jealous indeed 🤣

[Hrefn]

@DonnaML I do have an account at Leu, and also placed some early bids directly on the Leu website.  None of those won.  I used Biddr a few days later to make more bids, and make some of my other bids more competitive.   

My Leu account shows only the ones placed directly on the Leu website.  

1 hour ago, ajax said:

What does the * mean, is there a footnote maybe? Lot 2686 says : Bidder 4 950 CHF 01-Jul-24 12:02:44. Was that you?

It's not a good idea to place pre-bids, no matter who the auctionner is.

I bid 1200 on that lot, via Biddr.  No invoice, no evidence on My Leu portion of Leu’s website that I won the lot, no response to my two emails on the matter.  

The “*” says contact the Auction house to see if you have won.  

Edited August 10 by Hrefn
Addendum

[TIF]

One time I bid through a third party site-- don't remember which one, maybe Numisbids.  I think it was at least a few days before the auction but perhaps it was shorter notice.  Like you, the coin I wanted hammered for less than my max and I wasn't the winner.  The bid did not make it to the auction house in time or something.   Live and learn... that was the first and only time I bid through a third party website.

[Hrefn]

Here’s the other lot I thought I won.

[Hrefn]

And the first one.  Leu had my bid.   Is their billing this slow?  I recall fellow forum members commenting about receiving their invoices from Leu just a few days after the auction.  That was weeks ago.  

[Tejas]

You need to log into your Leu account. I'm sure you invoice is sitting there waiting for you.

[SimonW]

@Hrefn, did you get a bid confirmation from Leu? And is the email address you registered with Leu the same that you registered with biddr?

 

 

[sand]

You can also check your email spam folder.

[Hrefn]

1 hour ago, Tejas said:

You need to log into your Leu account. I'm sure you invoice is sitting there waiting for you.

Sadly, no.

[Hrefn]

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

@Hrefn, did you get a bid confirmation from Leu? And is the email address you registered with Leu the same that you registered with biddr?

 

 

Yes, on same address. 
Biddr sent emails saying my bids were submitted.  I did not receive a separate email from Leu.  The submission was not a last minute one.  
 

Edited August 10 by Hrefn
Elaborating

[Hrefn]

22 minutes ago, sand said:

You can also check your email spam folder.

Done. Multiple times.  No luck.  

[ambr0zie]

A long time ago, when I wasn't even into ancient coins, I was in a bad situation (I hope you will solve the problem and get the coins)

I was not very experienced with auctions but I felt something was fishy - the auction was live on the house's website, a guy was leading the auction (live streaming) but even if the prebids were in EUR on biddr, the auction was in a different currency. Whatever, my 250 EUR prebid was a winner after I checked the conversion, everything seemed cool.

But what do you know, I received no invoice. I emailed the house who explained me that somebody else had a higher bid. This was idiotic and I tried explaining again. In the end they sincerely apologized and offered me- wait for it - a 2% discount from THEIR FEES on the next auction. 

I prefer to bid exclusively on auctions who take place on biddr and NOT on the proprietary system of the house because it's not the first time I heard about this. 

But the fact Leu did not reply is highly unprofessional. 

 

[DonnaML]

2 hours ago, Hrefn said:

And the first one.  Leu had my bid.   Is their billing this slow?  I recall fellow forum members commenting about receiving their invoices from Leu just a few days after the auction.  That was weeks ago.  

Not only did I finally receive the invoice a couple of weeks ago, as posted in the other thread, but my package was shipped, as were a number of others, on 5 August -- last Monday.

At least when I bid through Numisbids, they let me know not only when the bid is submitted to the auction house, but when it's accepted. It seems that biddr doesn't do that.

 

[Prieure de Sion]

If you bid with biddr at a lot number - for example - 500 CHF and you see the coin was sold for 500 CHF it’s not sure you won the coin! It’s possible that another collector bids at the Leu Page days before also 500 CHF. And so he was the first bidder - you don’t see that at biddr - and the another collector wins the coin.

 
I have this problem often - I make with biddr some start bids - see that a bid will be win - but i didn’t win, because another collector make the same bid at the auctionhouse webpage before I did the bid.

 
Last month I make a bid of 1.300 Euro for a Julius Caesar Denarius. After auction i see that 1.300 Euro was the winning bid. But I get no invoice - not in one, not in two weeks, so I ask the auction house and they will give me the feedback, that another collector bids also 1.300 Euro before I did at the auctionhouse webpage. But didn’t see that at biddr. 
 
So if I have a coin I really want - i make (pre) bids only at the auctionhouse webpage. 
 

Only - if the auction will run direct at the biddr website. In this case you can see live the highest pre bids. 

[Roman Collector]

Some years ago, I bid on this denarius of Julia Domna with a quadriga of lions through the Leu platform. I got outbid and I thought that was that. About a month later, I got a phone call (of all things) from Leu, asking me if I wanted it at my bid price. Apparently, the high bidder failed to pay the invoice and I was the second highest bidder. I really wanted the coin, so I bought it. I hope that happens to you.

Here's the Leu photo:

Here's my photo:

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

This thread illustrates well why I do not trade with auction houses: all devious and perfidious people. On the other hand if you buy on Ebay, every seller is honest and 99.9 % of the coins are authentic and genuine. Why go anywhere else ?

 

 

 

 

[John Conduitt]

A few times in live auctions I've had the highest bid on an auction house's own website and still didn't win the coin. The auctioneer has to accept the highest bid when they hammer regardless of what is shown online and in my case they didn't notice the bids on the website. So the only way to guarantee that you win with the highest bid is to physically be in the room and get the auctioneer to take down your bidder number.

Obviously, that doesn't apply in a web auction, but the rule about a bid being 'accepted' still applies, even if that is by a computer.

[rasiel]

I've been quite active on the auction circuit and can say Leu's backend operation could be this, could be that but I 100% trust that they're not screwing around with the bidding. I won one coin in this auction at just 15% of my max so they could have easily taken me for a ride. Some of my bids go well into the five digits where you'd expect funny business, not on dime-a-dozen 5th century solidi.

Just my personal opinion of course.

Rasiel

[DonnaML]

40 minutes ago, rasiel said:

I've been quite active on the auction circuit and can say Leu's backend operation could be this, could be that but I 100% trust that they're not screwing around with the bidding. I won one coin in this auction at just 15% of my max so they could have easily taken me for a ride. Some of my bids go well into the five digits where you'd expect funny business, not on dime-a-dozen 5th century solidi.

Just my personal opinion of course.

Rasiel

I wish I were in a position in which > $1,000 for each solidus seemed to me like a "dime a dozen"! They may be common, but they aren't cheap! On your larger point, I tend to agree with you: there are some legitimate concerns with some of Leu's practices (like that amazing "Swiss collection formed before 2005" where they find a remarkable number of their coins), but I don't think shill bidding is one of them.

Edited August 11 by DonnaML

[rasiel]

30 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

I wish I were in a position in which > $1,000 for each solidus seemed to me like a "dime a dozen"! They may be common, but they aren't cheap! On your larger point, I tend to agree with you: there are some legitimate concerns with some of Leu's practices (like that amazing "Swiss collection formed before 2005" where they find a remarkable number of their coins), but I don't think shill bidding is one of them.

Oh I wish I was in that position too Donna. I don't exactly wear a monocle. In any case, I meant that these are very common. I'd expect even a shady auctioneer to keep their nose clean on this type of low margin material. It's the odd high end stuff that draws out the big pockets where a shill bid here and there can make a big diff for the bottom line.

Rasiel

[Hrefn]

In the interest of giving Leu the fullest benefit of the doubt, I suppose the problem could be on Biddr’s end.  That seems doubtful to me, since Biddr’s entire business is forwarding collectors’ bids to auction firms.  If they were not competent at that, neither collectors nor auction houses would have any reason to patronize their service.  Still, it remains possible.  
I am resigned to not obtaining the coins I believe I won.  My business is clearly not important to Leu, since they cannot even bother to respond to emails.   
Thank you all for your comments, and your efforts to be helpful.  Your camaraderie is the silver lining in this cloud.