Deinomenid Posted August 16 · Supporter Share Posted August 16 This isn't new information at all but I've not seen it discussed here, and the coins are clearly sold as copies, but there are some really decent copies of Greek (and Roman) coins on ebay from a German seller of struck genuine silver. I thought I'd flag them for 2 conflicting reasons : 1) They are likely to be resold as genuine by others so as a caveat and 2) Some of them are really quite good and for not a huge amount more than spot silver you can own what would fool many. Awful that I'd write this, as it sounds like a Peter Rosa infomercial, but they are curiously - ok morbidly! - attractive... I completely understand counterfeiters (no accusation of this here to the maker) aren't usually looking for the perfect copy, just what is good enough to sell etc and that there are stylistic differences, not often accurately linked obverses and reverses etc, but a couple of the them are really quite convincing without the relevant textbook to hand. The Akanthos one for example has a texture to the surface and an edge structure that had me almost believing. Some look "off" of course but it's way easier to make that call when you know something is not real! I don't know how they are made, other than that they are struck per the maker's website, though I was told the texturing is from precision laser copying of an original. I have zero idea if the laser comment is correct - it came from a well-known dealer, who I think was guessing. I bought the Velia example too and when placed alongside my own coins from there it fit right in, with only its shine making it stand out. This all might just reflect poorly on my own judgement, but I thought it was of sufficient interest to pass along. Naxos - Velia - Akanthos - Dealer images. Weights are correct too. Seller is Tumbale. 8 1 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwheelsearl Posted August 16 · Member Share Posted August 16 These are incredible. The Akanthos obverse is very convincing but I think the reverse is a little off. The other two are excellent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Theodosius Posted August 17 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted August 17 How is it they are allowed to do this? John 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted August 17 · Supporter Author Share Posted August 17 16 hours ago, Theodosius said: How is it they are allowed to do this? I believe it's completely legal there- and they've been around (in Germany) a good while - if they aren't breaking any laws about misrepresenting or trade descriptions acts etc. I suppose they come under The Hobby Protection Act in the US. It's worth reading about Rosa from the first post here (also in Sayles' Classical Deceptions) as his vast-scale reproductions were supposed to be a major impetus for that Act. "The Hobby Protection Act, passed by Congress in 1973, covers imitation political items (e.g., buttons, posters, stickers, etc.), as well as imitation numismatic items (e.g., various coins, tokens, paper money, commemorative medals) that are required to be marked with certain identifying information in an effort to flag them as imitations."... I'm no legal expert though 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Theodosius Posted August 17 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted August 17 That is exactly what I was thinking. I'm surprised it's not illegal to make unmarked copies of valuable collectible items in other countries. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AETHER Posted August 17 · Member Share Posted August 17 24 minutes ago, Theodosius said: That is exactly what I was thinking. I'm surprised it's not illegal to make unmarked copies of valuable collectible items in other countries. John Some of them are marked AR from the ebay photos. I ordered the EID MAR because I was outbid on a real one 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted August 18 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted August 18 3 hours ago, AETHER said: Some of them are marked AR from the ebay photos. I ordered the EID MAR because I was outbid on a real one 😕 What does "AR" mean other than silver, and how would that suffice to satisfy the legal requirement -- at least to sell these in the USA -- of clearly marking these as copies/reproductions? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Theodosius Posted August 18 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted August 18 Sure seems like these are not or should not be legal to sell to the United States. John 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AETHER Posted August 18 · Member Share Posted August 18 (edited) 12 hours ago, DonnaML said: What does "AR" mean other than silver, and how would that suffice to satisfy the legal requirement -- at least to sell these in the USA -- of clearly marking these as copies/reproductions? I don't know, but they are not on original coins and look clearly modern. Edited August 18 by AETHER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Kowsky Posted August 18 · Member Share Posted August 18 These coins only resemble what the genuine coins look like, & would never fool an experienced collector or dealer 😏. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted August 18 · Supporter Author Share Posted August 18 (edited) It’s the relative strength of these coins though. Counterfeiters generally aim to not make the perfect copy, which even now is exceptionally hard, but do enough to sell to the non-experienced specialist, which is most of the market by demand and I suppose who I was trying to help. Again, not saying this seller is a counterfeiter at all. He/she isn’t. But their quality is sufficiently high to make them get passed off by someone less scrupulous in terms of style, being struck with good lines and “correct convexity”, correct weight (there are of course some oddly specific weights in Greek coins like Akanthos which are properly kept to), and their edges/rims. I suspect several of them would fool the vast majority of generalists especially as they fulfill a want or a desire & that is easier to do when not shown in a post about copies 😀. I can’t speak to/for the Romans that are on offer though. I’d show the Naxos copy against my own collection of similar but I’d need to sell my house to buy some first! I did get my Akanthos originals out of the bank though to compare and will post that later (if it fits with what I’m claiming of course😀). Edited August 18 by Deinomenid typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted August 18 · Supporter Author Share Posted August 18 Here's the copy with 3 (hopefully) genuine with decent prov. The obverse of one I didn't show only as it has a large test-cut. The copy has a really tiny AR on it, fairly easily alterable without filing. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwheelsearl Posted August 20 · Member Share Posted August 20 Perhaps AR fulfills the same duty as the giant “COPY” that is stamped on American coin imitations sold here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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