Focas solidus, problematic Bertolami listing

[Hrefn]

I noticed this coin in an incoming auction.  I purchased a very similar one about 20 years ago.  After receiving it, I had some question about its authenticity.  The figure of Victory on the reverse generally holds a staurogram or rho-cross.  A plain cross would be highly unusual.  Glenn Woods (is he still around?) kindly helped me to get images of it to a numismatic institute in Vienna, which gave the opinion that the coin was a Lebanese counterfeit.  I returned it to the seller for a refund.

Unfortunately, I no longer have any records or images pertaining to this.  In their absence, I am reluctant to condemn the coin unilaterally, and thus I have not contacted the auction house.  But I do have a good eidetic memory, and I think this coin may be a problem.  

Alternatively, it is an extremely rare variety.

My hope is that another Forum member has some knowledge about this.  This is the coin in question:

 

 

Edited August 23 by Hrefn
Calling out the auction co.

[Hrefn]

I have answered my own question.

Found it on https://www.forgerynetwork.com/viewassets.aspx?mode=IrY~x~6CGiY1Q=&cl=&cln=&br=&pr=&prd=&key=V9/0Ki~x~j0CU=&ext=CbSSjWkLN03YeTuQXF4H4QH/Qglw7e7HP/aL3GaaCQipaQhi4iWDIWHE9YfedsH3Bhz3qs6cHUVcmiT780Lk9EOLumVXPWZq26k5XqOmFT3cdZc~x~wQZYyVJBTc3GH2CMSsAf2vYy3sF2SpMb5EMxrg==&srco=1&num=20&srchall=0

I did not find it until I searched under “Phocas”.  Screenshot of an enlarged photo.  

 

[Postvmvs]

@Hrefn Good job! Did you contact the auction house?

[Hrefn]

@Postvmvs, yes I have.  We shall see if they reply.  

[Hrefn]

No reply from the auction house so far.  So here is the listing.  Caveat emptor.  
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/bertolamifinearts/browse?a=4891&l=5920143

[mcwyler]

7 hours ago, Hrefn said:

No reply from the auction house so far.  So here is the listing.  Caveat emptor.  
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/bertolamifinearts/browse?a=4891&l=5920143

That reminded me of this post...

 

Caveat emptor indeed!

[Deinomenid]

@mcwyler Their upcoming auction is one of the "best". I sat down to start to review them for alerts but there were so many it was almost pointless.

 

  King Cnut the Great fails to halt the incoming tide

[Nemo]

I think that they had been notified about several fakes already in this sale.

The Phocas is 3 times published :

1. O´Hara Bulletin 62 there number 11

2. IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 2 No.3 Page 68 3a

 

https://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=Is8WXqje3sc=

 

3. Sear F28

 

 

Another one

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=12962936

[I_v_a_n]

Very strange auction with a very high percentage of suspicious coins together with some good.

From Byzantine part after a brief view:

Lot 84 is a well known forgery said to be from Beirut:

 

Lot 89 On my opinion is an obvious fake.

 

In the Greek part a lot of suspicious coins too...

[Hrefn]

I have sent Bertolami an email scolding them for continuing to list a well-known fake as real.  I also withdrew all my prebids in their auction after closely examining the other Byzantine gold coins, stating I had lost confidence in their expertise and honesty.  

I suspect they will not be overly concerned with the loss of one occasional customer.  Perhaps they should be more concerned with the loss of a good reputation.  The short term gain from selling false coins, of even just lying about provenances, can ultimately destroy a firm, as recent history has shown.  

In the coin business, a reputation for expertise and honesty are indispensable.  No one is infallible (prescinding a certain Roman gentleman speaking ex cathedra)  and the occasional fake will slip into an auction.  How the firm handles the problem is the critical factor.  I have long maintained that customers who point out false coins should be rewarded, perhaps with a $50 voucher.  After all, the firm has been saved embarrassment, expense, and a possible hit to its reputation.  Also, the eagle-eyed customer has rendered a service by improving on the work of the firm’s cataloguer, a person who one presumes is paid for his or her expertise.

Beyond this, the confidence such a policy would engender in the firm’s customers would be of great value.  Every coin in their catalogue would be vetted not only by their in-house experts, but by many interested amateurs and professionals who viewed their catalogue (since who wouldn’t want $50 off and the associated bragging rights?)   Think of it as the cheapest insurance policy ever, outsourced to the universe of numismatic experts.  

Even a company with a poor reputation from selling fakes in the past could swiftly have that reputation redeemed after initiating this policy.  

 

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Hrefn said:

I have sent Bertolami an email scolding them for continuing to list a well-known fake as real.  I also withdrew all my prebids in their auction after closely examining the other Byzantine gold coins, stating I had lost confidence in their expertise and honesty.  

I suspect they will not be overly concerned with the loss of one occasional customer.  Perhaps they should be more concerned with the loss of a good reputation.  The short term gain from selling false coins, of even just lying about provenances, can ultimately destroy a firm, as recent history has shown.  

In the coin business, a reputation for expertise and honesty are indispensable.  No one is infallible (prescinding a certain Roman gentleman speaking ex cathedra)  and the occasional fake will slip into an auction.  How the firm handles the problem is the critical factor.  I have long maintained that customers who point out false coins should be rewarded, perhaps with a $50 voucher.  After all, the firm has been saved embarrassment, expense, and a possible hit to its reputation.  Also, the eagle-eyed customer has rendered a service by improving on the work of the firm’s cataloguer, a person who one presumes is paid for his or her expertise.

Beyond this, the confidence such a policy would engender in the firm’s customers would be of great value.  Every coin in their catalogue would be vetted not only by their in-house experts, but by many interested amateurs and professionals who viewed their catalogue (since who wouldn’t want $50 off and the associated bragging rights?)   Think of it as the cheapest insurance policy ever, outsourced to the universe of numismatic experts.  

Even a company with a poor reputation from selling fakes in the past could swiftly have that reputation redeemed after initiating this policy.  

 

This is a very good idea, although perhaps with the caveat that the customer must offer solid proof (if it is not otherwise obvious). I imagine auction houses would worry about having lots of speculative claims trying to get $50 otherwise, and they don't have time to deal with that. Some collectors call 'fake' to anything slightly suspicious - as you've shown, it takes quite a bit of effort to prove.

[Rand]

It's a good idea, but it would probably only work if the dealers were worried about the penalty being considerably more than 50$ or if reputation was a true stopper for the business. I fear neither is the case. 

I have noticed that many fake gold coins imitate relatively inexpensive types. If the fake is noted a decade later, the inflation would eat half the price, potentially putting the purchase price below the current value of gold in the coin. Recently, we witnessed an owner of a major auction house admit to falsifying provenances to conceal stolen coins - the auction house remained popular till it closed.

To add to this thread, this another coin from Bertolami Fine Art, Auction 309, lot 2  - one of the most common and well-known fakes of Anastasius solidi, often seen in sales for about six decades now.

[Alwin]

17 minutes ago, Rand said:

To add to this thread, this another coin from Bertolami Fine Art, Auction 309, lot 2  - one of the most common and well-known fakes of Anastasius solidi, often seen in sales for about six decades now.

I've counted about fifteen of them!

[John Conduitt]

2 minutes ago, Rand said:

It's a good idea, but it would probably only work if the dealers were worried about the penalty being considerably more than 50$ or if reputation was a true stopper for the business. I fear neither is the case. 

I know what you mean about Roma, but if there's one thing collectors worry about it is fakes. They rely on the reputation of the auction house, else they have to slab everything, which is bad on many counts. If they think the auction house rejects fakes or would refund you if they sold a fake, they buy freely. If not, they don't. No-one reading this thread is going to be comfortable bidding at the Bertolami auction.

I have bought from Bertolami in the past and wouldn't rule it out completely in future, but it would need to be a coin I could guarantee was authentic. That is not easy to do. If a sizeable number of collectors - and consignors fearing low prices - are the same, Bertolami will slowly wither. Why buy a questionable Phocas from them when you can get a real one now from CNG, Savoca, Leu or several others? They might not blow up like Roma, but if they keep selling fakes they will die, like Lanz.

[Hrefn]

Lanz is on my no-go list, and Bertolami is joining them.  Why patronize a firm which has demonstrated clearly that they will not make a serious effort to avoid selling a fake coin?   There are many other firms from which to choose.  A lingering doubt about a coin’s authenticity destroys the pleasure of ownership.  No reason to buy from a firm which does not understand that.

[CPK]

I'm always more cautious when browsing Bertolami's coins, simply because I have seen a lot of tooled coins for sale that aren't disclosed as such (and in some cases where I suspect they do the tooling.)

And though I am not opposed to buying/selling high-quality replicas, the amount of cheap fakes they sell under the absurd title of "study" coins isn't a good look for them, either, IMO. These aren't British Museum electrotypes - they're just inexpensive fakes intended to deceive people, plain and simple.

[Hrefn]

This is becoming quite a farce.   Bertolami responded to my third and latest email!

Dear Mr. (Redacted).    actually, it is Dr. Redacted, but let’s not dwell on that.   
Our office will be open from 2 Septemberr and our expertise will give you all info.

Best regards

BFA Team

 

Two points to Bertolami for finally responding.  I guess their entire expert staff is spending the summer vacation kayaking on the Vltava.  I am very curious to hear what they have to say, once they return to the office.   Rest assured I will share their communication with the Forum.  

[Rand]

9 hours ago, Alwin said:

I've counted about fifteen of them!

I keep a registry of Anastasian gold coins and their fakes. It has nearly 30 distinct examples of this fake. However, as I currently update the database there are many more not sorted yet. Additionally, the silver versions are countless on eBay.

They slipped into sales of many top dealers. NAC offered it in four sales, but removed it promply with thanks after pointing it out. Heritage moved to slabs, meaning there were none of these fakes in their sales since 2003. 

Stack's Bowers Galleries has sold an NGC slabbed coin of this die pair in 2017. I do not know how to intepret it. Could it be a prototype or is it slabbed fake?

 

[Rand]

10 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

They might not blow up like Roma, but if they keep selling fakes they will die, like Lanz.

This is true, and I have a similar attitude. I see dealers being in three categories:
1. Take fakes very seriously, put effort into identifying fakes, and never sell a known fake, even marked so. Sales Paduans or Becker's fakes seem acceptable for some collectors. For me, fakes are fakes.
2. Do not consciously sell fakes but do not have the expertise to identify them. A sign of those would be occasional withdrawals of fakes from their sale. There are many of those dealers, especially in the low-mid price segment. It is impossible to collect coins in this segment, excluding those dealers. I am careful about those who accept whatever comes to their counter. Worryingly, I had to stop informing dealers of fakes after some even better-known dealers did not reply or withdraw the fakes when pointed.
3. Knowingly accept for sales. Depending on their response to @Hrefn, Bertolami Fine Art may end up on the list. It is unlikely I would buy from them. Still, and this is not a good thing, I would open their listings if on Biddr or Numisbids. This does not mean that under no circumstances I would buy from them. I do have two coins bought from eBay, even though collectively it sells many fakes.

The coins I collect affect my tolerance for the risk of a coin being fake. I collect coins minted by Goths, Franks, Burgundians, (hopefully) people living in Britain and other emerging groups. Many of those are 'unpublished' and so rare/unique that no one could know for certain. I am generally on my own there, relying on finding die matches or near matches in old collections and sales and hoping my brain learns to recognise patterns of the produce of the time. I am glad there are experts in the area on NF.

Edited August 25 by Rand

[Hrefn]

5 hours ago, Rand said:

I keep a registry of Anastasian gold coins and their fakes. It has nearly 30 distinct examples of this fake. However, as I currently update the database there are many more not sorted yet. Additionally, the silver versions are countless on eBay.

They slipped into sales of many top dealers. NAC offered it in four sales, but removed it promply with thanks after pointing it out. Heritage moved to slabs, meaning there were none of these fakes in their sales since 2003. 

Stack's Bowers Galleries has sold an NGC slabbed coin of this die pair in 2017. I do not know how to intepret it. Could it be a prototype or is it slabbed fake?

If that coin is a fake, it is an extremely good one.  The epigraphy looks perfect.  There is subtle evidence of a die shift on the reverse, which suggests the coin was struck, not cast.  Nor is there any other obvious sign of casting.  Could a pressed coin exhibit a die shift like this coin does?  I am not sure.  The softness at the high points could be legitimate signs of wear.  

I would say this coin is real, or a pressed copy of a real coin.  The style is perfect.  The only thing I note is an absence of flow lines in the metal.  I certainly would not be confident condemning it based on these photographs.  

[Rand]

6 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

I certainly would not be confident condemning it based on these photographs.  

Exactly. An additional challenge is that however many examples of a known fake exist, we cannot blankly condemn every coin that seems to be from the same die. It cound be the one used for a die transfer or another ways of reproduction.

I keep NGC in high regard and am inlclined to trust them this time as well.

[Deinomenid]

Noonans is selling a lot of Greek coins at the moment, and I spotted a difficult but known and explainable highly likely forgery in their Sicilian section. Not to bore everyone but  it is a great tale of how hoards themselves were seeded with fakes. This  particular coin is  extremely  likely to be in that basket, and its  old  provenance  - Spinks 1941 - actually made it more likely to be a problem.  To give them great credit,  after  I explained at some length why, including sending some rather obscure Italian documentation, they have slashed their estimate and stated "The Authenticity of this coin has been challenged and potential bidders must satisfy themselves. The dies used to strike the coin are regarded by some as being ancient, and others as being modern. Revised estimate £100-£150". That's a 90% cut in estimate.

(There is though an Alexander gold also for sale there that has serious doubts, but I didn't explain very much about it to them, as I would  only have been parroting the words of an expert rather than anything I knew for sure.)

So for  me  Noonans is firmly in the trusted category - on the @Rand scale, probably a 1 of the 1-3. Bertolami is a 72 on a scale of 1-3...

[Edessa]

I won't recount my story in detail again on this list but will remind everyone - for the third or fourth time - that I had to sign up with an international calling plan just so that I could call Bertolami weekly and it still took nine months for them to finally deliver several thousand dollars of lots from one auction a couple of years ago. When I finally received the coins and found one fairly expensive byzantine silver had two exact twins on ACSearch, Bertolami blew off my concerns by sending me a copy of a totally unrelated Bendall paper. The only good thing I can say about the experience is that at least two of the lower-level staffers that I talked to seemed genuinely interested in addressing my delivery issue. The senior staff/office management were deliberately rude and unhelpful. INHO, the people running this firm are crooks and if you do business with them, you are doing a disservice to the hobby.

[Hrefn]

News flash!  Biddr disables Bertolami auction!

Received this today:

“Dear Sir or Madam,

We regret to inform you that we have had to remove Bertolami Fine Arts Auction 309 from our platform due to the significant number of fake coins being presented as authentic in this sale. Despite a previous agreement with the auction house to withdraw any questionable coins — an agreement that allowed them to return to our platform after a two-year exclusion — the volume of confirmed and suspected fakes (exceeding 120 lots, or 20% of the entire auction) and the lack of communication and action to remove these coins have compelled us to take this step.

Since you have placed bids in this auction, which have already been submitted to the auction house, we strongly encourage you to review them carefully and contact Bertolami Fine Arts directly if you have any concerns or wish to withdraw them.

Although the auction is still accessible via a direct URL, it has been removed from our front page and bidding has been disabled. You will still be able to view the auction and your bids through your user account, but no further bidding is possible.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your continued trust in our platform.

Kind regards,

Simon Wieland”

Kudos to Biddr!!!

[CassiusMarcus]

On 8/25/2024 at 12:23 PM, Deinomenid said:

Noonans is selling a lot of Greek coins at the moment, and I spotted a difficult but known and explainable highly likely forgery in their Sicilian section. Not to bore everyone but  it is a great tale of how hoards themselves were seeded with fakes. This  particular coin is  extremely  likely to be in that basket, and its  old  provenance  - Spinks 1941 - actually made it more likely to be a problem.  To give them great credit,  after  I explained at some length why, including sending some rather obscure Italian documentation, they have slashed their estimate and stated "The Authenticity of this coin has been challenged and potential bidders must satisfy themselves. The dies used to strike the coin are regarded by some as being ancient, and others as being modern. Revised estimate £100-£150". That's a 90% cut in estimate.

(There is though an Alexander gold also for sale there that has serious doubts, but I didn't explain very much about it to them, as I would  only have been parroting the words of an expert rather than anything I knew for sure.)

So for  me  Noonans is firmly in the trusted category - on the @Rand scale, probably a 1 of the 1-3. Bertolami is a 72 on a scale of 1-3...

Could you message me or post which lot# the alexander gold coin is that is giving you some doubts? I have some targets at Noonans, one of which consists of an alexander stater, wanted to know if its the same one 

much appreciated! 

Edited August 28 by CassiusMarcus
missed a word