Advice on advice for liquidating a collection

[kirispupis]

Hello everyone,

First of all, I have no intentions of selling my hard-earned collection. I also intend to remain in the land of the living for some time, since I'm not that old. However, family members have requested specific instructions for what to do with my collection in the event of my unplanned (or for all I know, planned) demise.

The following are basic logistics for my collection:

• Roughly 900 coins
• Every single one was purchased individually. I've never purchased a group lot, even of two coins.
• The majority are Greek, but I have about 100 Roman.
• They can all be viewed here - https://ancientcoinstories.com/
• I don't truly know the value or even how much I've spent, but I estimate the whole thing to be worth in the neighborhood of $100k-$250k.
• There are a lot of niche coins - rare issues and rare cities.
• I eventually intend to have a write-up on each coin.
• I have a spreadsheet detailing the date, seller, lot number, original price paid, and any information provided by the seller for each coin.

I haven't contacted any auction houses because I don't really want to waste their time, since I have no intentions of actually selling my collection, and at the time it is sold I won't really care. In truth, I hope that it isn't sold, and it's instead kept intact for future generations, but I understand that at the time I won't have any say in the matter outside of extra hauntings.

From my knowledge of current auction houses, I'm leaning towards CNG:

• They're based in the US, so it will be easy for my wife/kids to send them the coins
• They tend to receive very good prices for coins like mine
• In my estimate, they're the most reputable auction house around

If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said Leu. I'm aware that they have their own mechanism to get coins from the US to Switzerland. However, bad experiences from other members here have removed them from the list.

My only debate is whether to stipulate that the coins be divided, so that ones over $100 be sent to CNG, and those under it handed over to a seller, such as Marc Breitsprecher. My worry is that many of my cheaper coins will be shoved into bulk lots and sold for what amounts to a few dollars each. The only challenge is I do have some great buys where I paid <$100 but the coin is worth several hundred (and probably a few where I paid several hundred and it will fetch $50).

Any advice here? The ask from my wife is to write a document explicitly informing my sons and her on how to liquidate the collection.

Edited Monday at 05:45 PM by kirispupis

[ela126]

i hear you 100% on this. i specifically struggled with my transition into ancients, away from Slabbed, easily priced American stuff.

I have no where near the size of an Ancient collection you, do.. Wow! I can see their concern.

I had the same concern about having a bunch of $75 dollar coins tossed into CNG lots and being sold for 1/4 their real value. although i cheer when i buy a group lot which i'm the beneficiary this way.

CNG probably is your best bet. They know what theyre doing and get the traffic to get the best bids. 

As for the little stuff, if i'm not the one driving the bus due to posioning or a slashed brakelines, i've (right or wrongly), written estimated values on all the tags i have, on the back. I have instructions to list all coins under $100 on ebay, just using the info on the tag. (for my collection, this is quite a few pieces, and a warning that being lazy will result in likely 1/5th the payback, so list the damn things on ebay!)

All coins above $100 should go to CNG.

Edited Monday at 05:57 PM by ela126

[Deinomenid]

I'd check the instructions re the intended auction house every few years, given how reputations rise and fall. Very few maintain a given position over time.

[TIF]

I went through these decisions recently when writing a will.  I didn't go to great lengths about it because I mostly want to do what is easiest for the executor, within reason.  I named a few close coin friends who could choose one or two coins to keep if they desired (out of any), and the rest of my collection should be consigned to CNG or Leu at the executor's discretion.  I chose those two auction houses because of the US location, generally good reputation, and good results.   As @Deinomenid mentioned, it may be worthwhile to rethink the consignment destinations every few years because things change.  Any unsold coins will be handled in whatever manner the executor wishes (keep, sell, give away, whatever).  

Edited Monday at 06:16 PM by TIF

[John Conduitt]

It seems the problem is the coins that are niche and rare and might need a bit of time to find the right buyer. If you provide write-ups and photographs that are easy to connect to each coin, they can put them on eBay at the price you want, or send them to Marc knowing what they are. Everything else can go to CNG.

The cheap, more common coins might go in a group lot, but it would be a lot of hassle to sell them individually and the downside isn't huge. 100 coins at $50 = $5000, and even if they sold for $1000 would only lose $4000, which is 1-4% of the total collection value. Of course, if they want to put those on eBay too, they have the information and photos.

[Ryro]

37 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

I'd check the instructions re the intended auction house every few years, given how reputations rise and fall. Very few maintain a given position over time.

I really think Roma is the way to go for my coins....wait, what's that you say? jk

I am glad to read that you are in good health and will be posting many more coins and threads to come in the future @kirispupis! I think for your coins CNG is a great way to go. Though, I did send them some rarities that no longer fit my collection or ones that I had upgraded and was disappointed that they sold some in a lot. No ROI there.

[red_spork]

You could always talk to a trusted dealer or two about being the person who handles disposal of your collection in the event of your demise. For a few(likely based on a percentage) quite a few dealers could come get your coins, divide out what should go to auction as single coins, what should go in group lots and what should go to retail and handle consignment and the "babysitting". that sometimes comes with a consignment like griping to the auction house that lot X has a bad picture or lot Y is misattributed. The great thing about having all your coins online is any dealer can give you a realistic assessment of your collection pretty easily.

Personally I just have instructions for a specific consignment venue for my wife but my coins are not treated any differently than other property in my will. If her and/or my son want to keep them they're welcome to, otherwise they have contact information for a consignment venue, a basic rundown of what to expect and a couple of numbers of trusted friends to call if they need a little help.

Edited Monday at 06:44 PM by red_spork

[Rand]

My approach

1. Education to my family. They do not go to a local dealer! As soon as the coins are sold at a public auction, they are relatively safe. I have few coins I paid <$500, so there must be no group lots.
2. I have a shared iCloud account with my wife, with a folder called ‘Coins’. There is a spreadsheet listing all coins with acquisition details (yes, she can see how much I have spent if she wishes). Each coin has a corresponding PDF with all relevant information, starting from images (ACSearch or NumisBids page), invoices, custom charges, and provenance records.
3. A file with contact details of several dealers in my preference order (in case they are no longer operating or are not interested) with advice to accept no more than 10% of seller fee (aim ≤5%).

The approach may change. I prefer that my children (or future grandchildren) develop an interest in coins.

[TIF]

May I also add the following suggestion for those making out their wills?

Our coin community is close-knit.  I think of many of you almost as family.  When one of us simply disappears, it is difficult when we don't know why.  In my will, I have instructions for the executor to post a notice of my passing on this forum and encourage you to do the same.  (To clarify and alleviate any concerns, to my knowledge I am not going anywhere anytime soon 😁).

The advent and popularity of social media sure has created some interesting situations, hasn't it?  Most of the friends I interact with on a regular basis are people I've never met in real life yet they are as important to me as those I have met.

[robinjojo]

I agree that CNG is the best firm.  They're US-based and have been at it with auctions for a very long time.

As for worrying about cons, the lower priced ones, getting put into group lots, I'd that you stipulate what you wish in your will or trust, and that's it.  Many things happen that are beyond our control and this is situation where that is very true. 

I think you have a very well organized collection, so grouping coins by value or by auction potential is a good approach, one that I am sure you are working on.  Of course ancient coin values can be fickle with hoards appearing, with some frequency, causing values to fluctuate over time.

Putting detailed stipulations in a trust is a good thing to do.  At least it provides a roadmap for the disposal and disbursement of the estate. Even so I guess it is just plain old human nature for dust-ups to occur.  I've seen family members squabble about inherited items.  Many years ago my cousin and the wife of another cousin got into it over a rather ratty fur coat left by my aunt.  They didn't talk to each other for years.

Also, if you own property and other assets, including the collection, a revocable trust is best, I think.  It is more expensive than a will, but it is less likely to be contested at least in California, I've heard.  I need to do this for all the stuff I have, including the house.  Maybe this will get me off my ass and finally do it! 

When my wife died suddenly 15 years ago her townhouse, which she owned prior to our marriage, went into probate, since she did not have a will.  It took me about a year to sell the townhouse, pay the legal expenses and distribute the proceeds to the court stipulated beneficiaries, a real task for me at that point in my life.  Avoid probate!

Edited Monday at 10:54 PM by robinjojo

[Parthicus]

I sold the first iteration of my Parthian collection (~400 coins) via CNG in 2016 and found it to be a good experience.  I was disappointed in the performance of some of the group lots (worn Parthian bronzes get no respect), but overall they seem to have been a good choice.  I expect other large auction houses would also be good.  If I had to sell my current collection I might choose Stephen Album, mainly because my current collection is very Eastern-centric and they are a leader in that type of coins.  

I would also recommend being very specific in your will and in any other documents you leave behind.  My sister is a lawyer, and I've heard stories from her of families torn apart arguing over vague terms in a will covering the fate of hundreds of thousands of dollars in property.

[kirispupis]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

@robinjojoyes, this is a small part of a much larger problem. My wife and I have a large amount of real estate that totals to a significant amount of money. We don't have faith that our kids will be able to manage it, so we're in the process of drafting instructions on how everything will be liquidated and then the money evenly divided, then distributed to them over 20 years so they don't burn through it.

@TIF good point on notifying the community. I will add this to the document.

@Rand I took have such a spreadsheet that my wife has access to, though I do hope she doesn't take the time to go through it!

Thinking about this a bit more, I believe the big question is: what will my kids do with the collection? I've spoken to them about it, and our earlier agreement was that my younger son would get first dibs at any three coins, then the rest would go to my older son. However, I don't think either know the true value of the collection. I may just want to stipulate that they each take turns keeping coins, and the remainder is liquidated and split between them.

[Spargrodan]

A few years ago, I liquidated my modest collection of ancient coins through Roma with no problems. Here's what I would do in this situation:

1. Educate your relatives and those who will eventually inherit the collection. Make sure each coin is cataloged, and attach a corresponding ticket, number, or system to easily identify each coin. This helps your loved ones recognize the coins and prevents confusion.

2. Include purchase prices and market information. Document what you paid for each coin, along with current market values (well if you're gone it's hard but keep it updated) and any relevant details. This will be crucial for anyone unfamiliar with their worth.

3. I also agree with the previous advice: notify trusted hobbyists or friends. They can provide valuable assistance, especially if your family isn't familiar with numismatics. If your relatives are interested in keeping the collection, that's great. However, if they’re not, it’s okay to let the coins pass to another collector who will appreciate and enjoy them as much as you have.

4. Recommend auction houses you trust for selling the coins. In some cases, the auction house may need to decide what's best for the sale, and that’s okay. Even if you'd prefer to see them sold individually, remember that not everyone shares the same attachment to specific coins, so let the experts handle the process.

Edited Tuesday at 09:57 AM by Spargrodan

[Mucius Scaevola]

The first thing I'd do is send them to an expert. And what a coincidence! I am one. So send them to me, will explain future steps later.

No, I think everything is said, you got some nice tips here. Nice collection!

[-monolith-]

I thought of two possible options. One - bury it in the back yard for a future generation to discover or two - hide it and then have a massive "treasure" hunt where the winner gets to keep it. Realistically I'll probably let my local museum take what they want and then let the family keep or sell it. I have many collections and would hope they would keep and expand them.

[Rand]

One more thing. Tell your family where the coins are (unless in a shared deposit box). 🙂

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:18 PM by Rand

[-monolith-]

6 hours ago, Rand said:

One more thing. Tell your family where the coins are (unless in a shared deposit box). 🙂

 

That's part of the fun of the "treasure" hunt option.

[JAZ Numismatics]

My wife has instruction that upon my demise, she should take all my coins to CNG, which is only a short drive as we live in Lancaster County PA. Since you've never bought large lots, you probably don't know that they actually fetch good prices. As a dealer, I could only WISH that CNG large lots sold for a few dollars per coin. The bidding on those can get as bullish as it can on single coins.