Mucius Scaevola Posted October 6 · Member Share Posted October 6 Hi everyone, This „Colosseum“ sestertius will be hammered soon and I‘m asking myself how anyone could be sure that it‘s really a colosseum type. Wouldn‘t it be quite easy to make it look like this? I get why someone would bid on it, but still. Last time it was auctioned, it was in a group lot, sold for around 250€. what do you think? 1 1 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted October 6 · Supporter Share Posted October 6 No thank you. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassiusMarcus Posted October 6 · Member Share Posted October 6 bahahahahah what the hell is that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted October 7 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 7 1 hour ago, Mucius Scaevola said: Hi everyone, This „Colosseum“ sestertius will be hammered soon and I‘m asking myself how anyone could be sure that it‘s really a colosseum type. Wouldn‘t it be quite easy to make it look like this? I get why someone would bid on it, but still. Last time it was auctioned, it was in a group lot, sold for around 250€. what do you think? What's the estimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted October 7 · Supporter Share Posted October 7 The Colosseum sestertius has always been my dream coin. I think I'll pass on this and keep dreaming. 3 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAg47 Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, DonnaML said: What's the estimate? The estimate is very low for the type (if it’s indeed what it is), but wonder how much it will fetch. Edited October 7 by JayAg47 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 I'm not sure what sizes of authentic sestertii of this type are, but comparing Titus sestertii for sale on vcoins, this one seems rather on the small end for both size and weight. Each side has a pizza crust edge, like it was dug into. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Atherton Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 FWIW, the piece looks genuine to me, not a whole cloth fabrication. Additionally, it cannot be fully attributed because of the extreme wear (either struck under Titus or for Divus Titus under Domitian). 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 7 · Member Author Share Posted October 7 6 hours ago, David Atherton said: FWIW, the piece looks genuine to me, not a whole cloth fabrication. Additionally, it cannot be fully attributed because of the extreme wear (either struck under Titus or for Divus Titus under Domitian). But how can you be sure? It's a honest question, I'm curious😅 I'm with Nero here, the inside of the coin seems to be dug into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted October 7 · Supporter Share Posted October 7 Well, it is a reputable and respected dealer...but with the extremely poor condition and very light weight I'd still be wary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 Peus is the oldest auction house in Germany. The head of the ancient department is a sworn-in appraiser for ancient coins regards Klaus 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 7 · Member Author Share Posted October 7 Okay, let's agree that it's probably the cheapest you could put in your collection 😉I would love to have this type, but can't think that I'd be able to do it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 This coin definitely need to be tooled to increase its value. 2 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idesofmarch01 Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 Just curious: if you could purchase this coin at an agreeable price, would you? Why or why not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 7 · Member Author Share Posted October 7 7 minutes ago, idesofmarch01 said: Just curious: if you could purchase this coin at an agreeable price, would you? Why or why not? No. Why? Well, I would have doubts all the time, even if only about the shape and always asking myself "Was it really needed?" I'd prefer to spend 5k, if I really wanted this type. The shape would still be bad, but recognizable. But I don't need this type, so even more "NOPE". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salomons Cat Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, idesofmarch01 said: Just curious: if you could purchase this coin at an agreeable price, would you? Why or why not? No, because the coin wouldn’t fit into my collection since I collect silver coins. But would I purchase it if it would fit into my collection? Also no. My rule of thumb is that any coin I buy must be able to stand on its own. If I would need an image of another coin to explain to a non-collector what is depicted, I wouldn’t buy it. However, if someone can purchase it for the estimated 750€, I would still think it’s a great buy. I understand that not everyone follows the same collecting principles. Edited October 7 by Salomons Cat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted October 7 · Patron Share Posted October 7 ...some of my coins are identifiable slugs. i admit but idk i could live with this one...even at a 'fair' price 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 As a collector who gladly accepts worn coins, ..... ... this is a no-no. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted October 7 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 7 A definite cull. I suppose if you really want one you could buy it. One has to remark on how much it has been handled over the years. It definitely has seen a lot of history. Oh if a coin could talk of its travels and owners - this one takes the cake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted October 7 · Supporter Share Posted October 7 The top of the 'Colosseum' must have been tooled to be that sharp when everything else has gone. The rim has had something done to it and the flan is now very tight to fit the design onto it. I'm struggling to find any feature that you could say was definitely original to identify the coin. It may be a respected dealer, but "gut erhalten" (well-preserved)? I'd struggle to find a less well-preserved coin. While fakes are withdrawn, some of these tooled coins are essentially fakes but still get sold. This got sold. Again. Paul-Francis Jacquier > Auction 53, 13 September 2024. Lot number: 77. Price realized: 11,500 EUR 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meander Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 40 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: The top of the 'Colosseum' must have been tooled to be that sharp when everything else has gone. The rim has had something done to it and the flan is now very tight to fit the design onto it. I'm struggling to find any feature that you could say was definitely original to identify the coin. It may be a respected dealer, but "gut erhalten" (well-preserved)? I'd struggle to find a less well-preserved coin. While fakes are withdrawn, some of these tooled coins are essentially fakes but still get sold. This got sold. Again. Paul-Francis Jacquier > Auction 53, 13 September 2024. Lot number: 77. Price realized: 11,500 EUR Gut erhalten doesnt really mean "well preserved". It is a techical grade and its equivalent in US grading system would be "good" which also doesnt mean the coin is good. Its a coin where some outlines are recognizable but no details whatsoever. 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted October 7 · Supporter Share Posted October 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Meander said: Gut erhalten doesnt really mean "well preserved". It is a techical grade and its equivalent in US grading system would be "good" which also doesnt mean the coin is good. Its a coin where some outlines are recognizable but no details whatsoever. I'm glad the Germans have similarly crazy grades as the English 🤣 Like a 'regular' drink is the smallest. It's not even true either, if it is like Sheldon good: "Rims of the coin are slightly worn, design is visible, but faint in areas, with many parts of the coin worn flat. Peripheral lettering nearly full." Edited October 7 by John Conduitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted October 7 · Member Share Posted October 7 In the very very old days it really meant "well preserved". But this was the usual condition, could there be anything better? Condition was of secondary importance - if at all. Poor coins were melted as they showed no aesthetics. You hardly see it nowadays, usually resolved to "gering erhalten" = "lowly preserved". And now to something different - who dares to name a final price Regards Klaus 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restitutor Posted October 7 · Administrator Share Posted October 7 Appears to me to be an image of the colosseum shrouded in a heavy fog… may be worth it 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted October 8 · Supporter Share Posted October 8 I can see no detail whatsoever of the meta sudans on this coin. Does anyone see it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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